Brightline West (XpressWest, DesertXpress) Las Vegas - Victorville - Rancho Cucamanga - LA Proposal

lpetrich wrote: So of the four proposals,

• DesertXPress - close to breaking ground
• Desert Lightning - expensive and likely to get pre-empted by DXP
• X-train - questionable business model, unwillingness of Union Pacific
• Z-train - just like X-Train

Bold predictions:

* DXP gets ground broken, completed. It operates. Eventually to LA via CA HSR. Or perhaps this becomes the 1st leg, since cali's sitting on their hands still.
* DL and DXP negotiate DL getting the LV-Phoenix routing. The builders of DXP build DL. This becomes the other leg of an eventual LA-LV-PHX hsr line.
* In the realm of DXP, high speed rail = 150mph with design for higher in places. DL is designed for north of 150mph and compatible equipment.
* Eventually, a Reno/Tahoe - LV line gets proposed.

* X train dies a fast death.
* Z train dies a fast death.

X and Z are easy ones to answer - they're an answer the the question that the public said 'no' to years ago. UP knows it, too.

I decided to check on a possible Las Vegas - Reno route, and I found:

Distance - 345 mi - 453 mi
Populations:
LA: 15.2 m, SF/SJ: 6.2, LV: 1.9 m, Reno: 1.0 m

A bit borderline for a TGV-quality line between LV and Reno.

Like LA - LV, the San Francisco Bay Area to Reno is more justifiable, but unlike LA - LV, it is not possible to go around the mountains in the way.

As to LV - Phoenix, a logical extension is to nearby Tucson. The cities' populations are 4.3 m and 1.0 m, and they are about 116 mi apart.

Speaking as a shareholder of UP...

I would expect the Road to charge anyone wanting premium speed access a premium tarriff.

It's not the days of UPs own Passenger Traffic Department, where the passengers were integrated into the overall mix of the Company.

It's the day of "what's the most profitable way to sell time on the line."

Senator Harry Reid's site contains this article: Reid To Maglev: No One Is Stopping You

He seems disillusioned with the Las Vegas maglev project -- its designers have been slow to raise the necessary money and to do an Environmental Impact Study. However, the DesertXPress project is much further along, and that is why Sen. Reid now supports it.

About DXP, I've seen rumors in some blogs that it may start construction by March 2011. But we will know in a few months what's happened to the EIS.

I checked Welcome to the DesertXpress! and their Flash intro still shows two largely-black trains passing each other with no overhead wires. In DesertXpress - Media Resources is a more appropriate paint job for a hot desert, though still with that set-back pantograph. Some of the concept pictures look like a rendering of a DXP train pasted onto a picture of an existing line -- single track, no overhead wire.


As to the UP wanting to charge a premium for such access, I have no quarrel with that. Perhaps the X-train and the Z-train teams can offer to build some additional sidings to enable their trains to coexist more easily with UP's trains on that route. If those trains then flop, then UP has some additional sidings.

The rumors are confirmed:
High-speed rail firm sees 2011 start - San Bernardino County Sun
Reported by California High Speed Rail Blog » DesertXpress Projects 2011 Construction Date

Proponents of a high-speed train that would link this High Desert city to Las Vegas say they are confident that the impending completion of environmental and financial plans will allow construction of a new rail line to begin in 2011.

"There will probably be at least some type of ground breaking, but the heavy construction will begin in 2011," Desert Xpress president Tom Stone said by teleconference on Thursday.

Not surprisingly, DXP is well ahead of the maglev backers.

Desert Xpress executives expect to make an announcement in about one month regarding a major investor for their project, Stone said. He said those talks are confidential.

Could it be some major HSR operator or builder? Like from France or Germany or Japan or China?

(two Victorville councilmen...)

They said the vision includes a sophisticated train station that will let Las Vegas-bound riders to check in their luggage and find their bags waiting for them at their hotel of choice.

Seems like a convenient service. I suspect that the LV end could use van services for carrying passengers to their hotels, at least if that end is not near the LV monorail.

lpetrich wrote: Seems like a convenient service. I suspect that the LV end could use van services for carrying passengers to their hotels, at least if that end is not near the LV monorail.

I believe train passengers will be uing the same means as bus and plane passengers in the past. Las Vegas is full of Vans, Limos, and Cabs.

lpetrich wrote:
(two Victorville councilmen...)

They said the vision includes a sophisticated train station that will let Las Vegas-bound riders to check in their luggage and find their bags waiting for them at their hotel of choice.

Seems like a convenient service. I suspect that the LV end could use van services for carrying passengers to their hotels, at least if that end is not near the LV monorail.

No what is convenient about driving to Victorville to buy an expensive train ticket? Why not just keep driving? Actually, I've seen Victorville and the it's the kind of place that makes you want to keep on driving. It is literally the middle of nowhere. This is the town where they tore down a housing developement because there was absolutely no hope whatsoever of attracting homebuyers!

Now I'm sure that Victorville councilmen have the occasional "vision," but that's precisely the sort of thing that happens when you spend to much time in the desert.

California High Speed Rail Blog » Proposals For Vegas-SoCal Passenger Rail Now At 5
Listing those mentioned in this thread: maglev, DXP, X-Train, Z-Train, and Desert Lightning.

From
Comparing, contrasting Southern Nevada train proposals - News - ReviewJournal.com
That article goes into detail on the main possibilities in the race, maglev and DXP, and it has a nice map of the likely routes.

The DesertXpress site got revamped recently: http://www.desertxpress.com/

It has a nice hype video, and some maps showing not only the route but a possible connection to Palmdale and the CA HSR system.

If you're gonna build a new, dedicated right of way, why limit speed to 150 mph?

the only reason i can think of , is to still be able to use diesel traction , or turbine , neither of which is a good idea . would save the upfront cost of cantenary though .

David Benton wrote:the only reason i can think of , is to still be able to use diesel traction , or turbine , neither of which is a good idea . would save the upfront cost of cantenary though .

They show it with catenary in the pics.

Right now, AFAIK, the FRA hasn't set track standards / rules for faster than 150. Not like the FRA's standards at 150 are anything impressive. Tier II and keep the track somewhere close to in gauge. IIRC, Germany is +- a few mm at that speed. The FRA's more like an inch or two.

Matt Johnson wrote:If you're gonna build a new, dedicated right of way, why limit speed to 150 mph?

For a privately funded line, 150mph trains would be significantly cheaper than for example the AGV 225mph trains - electricity bills will be significantly lower too.


However the updated site now says '..speeds initially reaching 150mph', which suggests potentially higher speeds at sometime in the future.

Chafford1 wrote: For a privately funded line, 150mph trains would be significantly cheaper than for example the AGV 225mph trains - electricity bills will be significantly lower too.
However the updated site now says '..speeds initially reaching 150mph', which suggests potentially higher speeds at sometime in the future.

You got to remember their business model comes into play too. 150 mph trains are fast enough to reach Las Vegas from Victorville in an comercial acceptable elapse time. If and when the CHSR is built and either CHSR or DXP connects Victorville with Palmdale, at that point they'll need faster trains because they will have to travel farther into Los Angeles over an acceptable elapse time.
With a Victorville terminus, they are competing with automobiles and buses. With a Los Angeles terminus, they'll be competing with jetliners too.

Also, the life of the trains themselves will be 20-25-30 years. At some point in the future, after proving their business models, they will have to replace the trains. Spending more for faster trains may make more sense when they replace the initial trains.

Are 150 mph EMU trainsets really less expensive to purchase than, say, something like the Siemens Velaro? Why not buy a trainset with upgrade potential, even if you initially run at 150 mph max? (That's what Russia did in purchasing the Velaro, which runs at 155 mph currently on the Moscow - St Petersburg route)