VIA pushing Amtrak?

jp1822 wrote:When the International was running between Chicago and Toronto, the VIA crew managed to derail (and I believe did some descent damage) a Superliner coach - if not two coaches.

I slightly remember, it was in the winter , I believe that was because the train slid past the point the engineer thought he was going to be able to stop at and hit the derailer. usually the international was only 3 cars and on the Y track in Toronto VIA can just fit 5 LRC cars plus 1 loco on the Y without having to remove the derailer. the same could be said for the Maple Leaf as its usually 5 cars long and LRC are roughly the same length as an Amfleet ( give or take a foot), I believe thats one major factor why Amtrak only sends 5 cars max to Toronto.

ramonesfan wrote:i bet via is like hey its not our train lets treat it the same way people treat rental cars.

I wouldn't be surprised. seeing as how VIA pushes the Maple leaf up to and over 90 mph on the lake shore run out of Toronto when they get the high ball. Amtrak Im sure when they take possession of the train in Niagara falls after it leaves Toronto, Amtrak engineer asks..." whats that burning smell ? "... VIA engineer... " just smiling & chuckling"

Heres the Y track in Toronto....

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v ... &encType=1

buddah wrote:
Heres the Y track in Toronto....

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v ... &encType=1

I always love looking at these aerial photos of rail yards and such....it's neat to see, and funny too. If you scan across TMC, you can tell the image is made up of composites taken at different times, because as you move the view across the yard, trains mysteriously appear and disappear!

buddah wrote:I wouldn't be surprised. seeing as how VIA pushes the Maple leaf up to and over 90 mph on the lake shore run out of Toronto when they get the high ball. Amtrak Im sure when they take possession of the train in Niagara falls after it leaves Toronto, Amtrak engineer asks..." whats that burning smell ? "... VIA engineer... " just smiling & chuckling"

Actually we are allowed to do 90mph with this equipment but due to the over-speed being set to 80mph we never do. I think in my 11 years as an engineer I've only seen 1 or 2 engines that have
come across the border that could do 90 (overspeed defective or cut out?) , and that's years ago when Amtrak was running F40's. When we reach 81mph a alarm sounds and at 82mph you get a penalty
application of the brakes.

Hella yard shot. LRC power cars and RDC's.

viahogger wrote:

buddah wrote:I wouldn't be surprised. seeing as how VIA pushes the Maple leaf up to and over 90 mph on the lake shore run out of Toronto when they get the high ball. Amtrak Im sure when they take possession of the train in Niagara falls after it leaves Toronto, Amtrak engineer asks..." whats that burning smell ? "... VIA engineer... " just smiling & chuckling"

Actually we are allowed to do 90mph with this equipment but due to the over-speed being set to 80mph we never do. I think in my 11 years as an engineer I've only seen 1 or 2 engines that have
come across the border that could do 90 (overspeed defective or cut out?) , and that's years ago when Amtrak was running F40's. When we reach 81mph a alarm sounds and at 82mph you get a penalty
application of the brakes.

When took the Maple Leaf to Toronto from Syracuse in September of 2005, somewhere after St Catherines, we got up to 90 MPH because in addition to my little handheld GPS showing 90 MPH, one of the defect detectors also stated speed was "9 0".

So someone at VIA knows how to flip the switch....

AgentSkelly wrote:

viahogger wrote:

buddah wrote:I wouldn't be surprised. seeing as how VIA pushes the Maple leaf up to and over 90 mph on the lake shore run out of Toronto when they get the high ball. Amtrak Im sure when they take possession of the train in Niagara falls after it leaves Toronto, Amtrak engineer asks..." whats that burning smell ? "... VIA engineer... " just smiling & chuckling"

Actually we are allowed to do 90mph with this equipment but due to the over-speed being set to 80mph we never do. I think in my 11 years as an engineer I've only seen 1 or 2 engines that have
come across the border that could do 90 (overspeed defective or cut out?) , and that's years ago when Amtrak was running F40's. When we reach 81mph a alarm sounds and at 82mph you get a penalty
application of the brakes.

When took the Maple Leaf to Toronto from Syracuse in September of 2005, somewhere after St Catherines, we got up to 90 MPH because in addition to my little handheld GPS showing 90 MPH, one of the defect detectors also stated speed was "9 0".

So someone at VIA knows how to flip the switch....

if the p-42s are limited to 80MPH then how does the SWC or the wolverine get up to 95 MPH.

buddah wrote:

ramonesfan wrote:i bet via is like hey its not our train lets treat it the same way people treat rental cars.

I wouldn't be surprised. seeing as how VIA pushes the Maple leaf up to and over 90 mph on the lake shore run out of Toronto when they get the high ball. Amtrak Im sure when they take possession of the train in Niagara falls after it leaves Toronto, Amtrak engineer asks..." whats that burning smell ? "... VIA engineer... " just smiling & chuckling"

LOL! Plenty of 90-110mph running for the Maple Leaf and other Empire trains between Schenectady and Poughkeepsie, NY on the Hudson Sub...the Amtrak engineers should be used to that burning smell, lol! The Amtrak P42's can do up to 103 (and the F40's were geared up to 103 as well, IIRC).

I was in the Grimsby area on the 4th of July. Got vids (non digital, so no uploads, sorry) of the GO trains heading to and from Niagara Falls, as well as a 6-car Maple Leaf (evidently, Amtrak added an Amfleet I coach to handle loads on the NY side for the Independence Day holiday.

if the p-42s are limited to 80MPH then how does the SWC or the wolverine get up to 95 MPH.

In Canada they are limited to 80mph by the overspeed, but in the U.S as I understand it they have cab signals most of the way to New york (not sure where?) In cab signal
territory I believe they are permitted to exceed the 80mph limit, someone more familiar with Amtrak's cab signal system should be able to explain it better.
I'm not too up on this but I believe the FRA limits Amtrak to 79mph in non cab signal equipped territory.

AgentSkelly wrote:

viahogger wrote:

buddah wrote:I wouldn't be surprised. seeing as how VIA pushes the Maple leaf up to and over 90 mph on the lake shore run out of Toronto when they get the high ball. Amtrak Im sure when they take possession of the train in Niagara falls after it leaves Toronto, Amtrak engineer asks..." whats that burning smell ? "... VIA engineer... " just smiling & chuckling"

Actually we are allowed to do 90mph with this equipment but due to the over-speed being set to 80mph we never do. I think in my 11 years as an engineer I've only seen 1 or 2 engines that have
come across the border that could do 90 (overspeed defective or cut out?) , and that's years ago when Amtrak was running F40's. When we reach 81mph a alarm sounds and at 82mph you get a penalty
application of the brakes.

When took the Maple Leaf to Toronto from Syracuse in September of 2005, somewhere after St Catherines, we got up to 90 MPH because in addition to my little handheld GPS showing 90 MPH, one of the defect detectors also stated speed was "9 0".

So someone at VIA knows how to flip the switch....

I hope it wasn't anywhere near St. Catharines as the speed on the Grimsby sub is only 65mph and doesn't increase until over 1 hour and 20 minutes away near Aldershot. It is possible that once on the Oakville sub the train could reach 90mph like I said it does occasionally happen that the speed control is defective or cut out. As far as "someone knowing how to flip a switch" while it would be easy to do so
it is against railroad rules to tamper with a safety device (and speed control is a safety device albeit intentioned for use in the USA) Without authorization no safety device on the locomotive can just be turned off and no one I work with would even consider doing that. Having said that if the equipment comes into Canada with it already cut out or defective and seeing that there is no speed restrictions for trains running in non cab signal equipped territory in Canada then there really are no issues with it remaining cut out or defective.

viahogger wrote:
I hope it wasn't anywhere near St. Catharines as the speed on the Grimsby sub is only 65mph and doesn't increase until over 1 hour and 20 minutes away near Aldershot. It is possible that once on the Oakville sub the train could reach 90mph like I said it does occasionally happen that the speed control is defective or cut out. As far as "someone knowing how to flip a switch" while it would be easy to do so
it is against railroad rules to tamper with a safety device (and speed control is a safety device albeit intentioned for use in the USA) Without authorization no safety device on the locomotive can just be turned off and no one I work with would even consider doing that. Having said that if the equipment comes into Canada with it already cut out or defective and seeing that there is no speed restrictions for trains running in non cab signal equipped territory in Canada then there really are no issues with it remaining cut out or defective.

I dug up my notes from that trip. I was correct that it did occur AFTER, St Catherines, but it did not occur on the Grimsby Sub at all. It was on the Oakville Sub right after Hamilton Jct.

And yeah, doing 90 on the Grimsby Sub? Oh god...that's a scary thought.

Also, the cab signals on the New York side are located between Albany and NYC. No cab signals west of Albany.

viahogger wrote:

if the p-42s are limited to 80MPH then how does the SWC or the wolverine get up to 95 MPH.

In Canada they are limited to 80mph by the overspeed, but in the U.S as I understand it they have cab signals most of the way to New york (not sure where?) In cab signal
territory I believe they are permitted to exceed the 80mph limit, someone more familiar with Amtrak's cab signal system should be able to explain it better.
I'm not too up on this but I believe the FRA limits Amtrak to 79mph in non cab signal equipped territory.

There are no cab signals on the route of the Maple Leaf until it hits the Hudson Sub at/near Schenectady. After that, they are in cab signal territory all the way to NY Penn. 70 to 79mph is the most it will get to between Niagara Falls and Schenectady, then a max of 90 to 110 between there and Poughkeepsie. South of there, you're on Metro-North, and I am not sure of MAS on their Hudson Line, but I would guess between 70 and 80...

Tadman wrote:Hella yard shot. LRC power cars and RDC's.

yes theres a lot of old power in that yard, too bad most of it is gone today that satellite view is roughly 1-2 yrs old, I wonder when msn will update it.

update on power.... http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v ... &encType=1


PS" If there's a speed restriction in the US it has no effect on Canada opperations and Im inclined to say that VIA proudly asks Amtrak to send Locos with the cab signal defective, disengaged, or cut out so VIA can use the Amtrak equipment to the best of there abilities, not saying its fair but it is fun My Garmin GPS has told me so ! (90 mph out of Toronto)