flynnt wrote:I would kind of like to get a discussion going on the possiblity of running trolleys on the regional rail lines.
Interesting idea- you'll get a better response from train people if you rephrase it to "restoing interurban trolleys"
Generally, the limits are that you can't run them on railroad lines that share space with Amtrak or freight without working out time separation.
Despite all the statements to the contrary, it is doable, sicne New Jersey's River line is doing this.
The bigger drawback is that most of SEPTA's lines are laid out as trunks that run with railroads- the NEC and the Wayne Junction to Market East tracks are examples of areas where trains are likely to run.
That means it's difficult to use the R1 Airport, R2 Wilmington or R3 Media because they have to run on AMTRACK from Southwest Philly to Arsenal/near University City Station.
R5 Paoli is out because of AMTRAK
You could run trolleys on R6 Cynwyd if you could find a way to avoid Zoo junction. There is an unused portion of Grays Ferry Tunnel that might work, but you can't share the Center City Commuter tunnel with SEPTA trains, the MFL and Subway Surface trolleys are a different gauge and people will point out problems of running dual gauge track.
The R6 Norristown is a possibility, but the section south of Ivy Ridge is more likely for transitizing, espeically if diesel from Quakertown to Lansale to Norristown to Ivy Ridge to Cynwyd is insituted.
I think a trolley on the R8 or R7 would work if you ran the lines into the BSl at Erie, but then you'd likely just run 3rd rail instead. You could also do interruban service along the Port Richmond Branch where there's lots of room beside the freight tracks.
R2,3,5 could be turned into trolleys but you'd have to run them into the BSl at Fern Rock or restore the American Street corridor trackage.
R8 Fern Rock is difficult because it shares tracks with an active freight line
R3 West Trenton and R7 Trenton get too much train service.
flynnt wrote:
Would this work technically?
Generally, yes it is doable.
The Route 100 highspeedline from Norristown to 69th Street is a trolley line running on a railroad right of way. It runs every day
Somebody got the bright idea of getting a Trolley Charter, but building a grade separated line to railroad standards in an attempt to compete with the mighty Pennsylvania Railroad. This worked fine until the Pennsy actually noticed and crushed the owners.
What was left was a beautiful grade separated ROW from 69th Street to Strafford. That became a trolley line, sprouted a spur to Norristown, then the Norristown to 69th Street alignment connected with the Liberty Bell trolley to Bethlehem- creating an "interurban trolley"
flynnt wrote:
Rail guage?
Not a problem- Route 100 cars and old Penns Landing trolleys ran on standard RR gauge- so do many other trolley systems. Route 100 ran Chicago cars with PATH trucks for a while- so you're able to mix and match to some extent.
SEPTA's Broad Street Subway runs on standard railroad gauge-
I believe the Subway cars are simply shipped here by diesel locomotive then delivered to Fern Rock. There are 8.5 trolley lines running on Philadelphia gauge- the 5 subway surface lines, the Route 101 and 102 trolleys, the Route 15 (soon), and the occasional tourist excursion on the Route 23 Germantown.
flynnt wrote:
Electric line at correct height for trolley?
Can't say for certain. The Route 100 ABB cars were supposebly designed to take a pantograph for a long planned but not stated extension out to King of Prussia that would use catenary.
flynnt wrote:
Would you keep the fare structure the same or change it to base fare for trolleys or something else?
Well, Route 100 has truely bizzarea fare system. It's a pay as you enter system like a trolley or bus. Base far is one token, with 2 zones of 50 cents but no way to check. It's pay as you enter inbound to Philadelphia but switches to pay as you exit outbound to Norristown.
Since it's basically impossible to police the train platforms, you'll probably have a pay as you enter system like the Subway Surface Trolleys.
flynnt wrote:
Trolleys would run with greater frequency to make up for the smaller capacity.
...
This would allow the same # of people to travel with shorter headways.
That's the hard part. You've got a 50' trolley replacing a 170' long paired railroad car- at smallest, sometimes you'll have 4 cars and 340' trains.
flynnt wrote:
But no increase in manpower would be needed beacause one person could operate one trolley, as opposed to one engineer and one or more conductors for RR.
Unfortunately, that's the achillies heel- at rushour you're competing against 5 car regional rail trains.
I did some comparable numbers, and fond that the current Subway Surface Trolley System at rushour has almost the same capacity as the Broad Street Subway system at rush hour.
