Third Ohio Derailment in North Baltimore

Summary: Q375 derailed into U994 when it went into emergency to avoid a car that ran the gates.

Blade: Car-freight train collision in North Baltimore injures 3 motorists, shuts CSX line

WTVG: N. Baltimore train derailment

WTOL: Train Derails, Crushing Car on the Road

WUPW: Train Derails in North Baltimore - Injuries Reported

It's gone national - was on CNN this morning.

Ok, some idiot ran the crossing, but why would going into emergency cause a derailment?

Mike

A couple of things condition of the rail, brakes on the rolling stock along with the in train forces that happen everytime you put the brakes on. A train traveling at speed will be stretched out like a string held taught when the brakes apply the train will start to bunch up, air travels from front to back and bounces back and forth till the air equalizes hence the cars towards the front of the train will have more braking power than towards the rear.

Would've been alot better to not dump it, and if they hit the person who ran the gates maybe they'd learn a lesson, and the 4 innocent people sitting in their car at a crossing like they're supposed to wouldn't have been crushed by a derailing car.

If a car had really tried to beat the train I can't see why they'd throw it in emergency, especially if they were traveling near track speed, which is 50-60 from what I read. What would be the point, there would be no chance of the train stopping, and usually in situations like this the engineer will throttle up to stretch the train out to minimize the chance of derailing and use full service air instead of just dumping it. Something else had to happen to make the train go in emergency. Maybe a derailing car.. ..the more I think about it, the more it seems to me like that switch to the grain elevator played a big role in this whole mess. But who knows what really happend. These things happen so fast it's hard to tell. It really does amaze me though that the person in the car smashed down to the doors lived. The one thing that will for sure come of this is a very large lawsuit.

Kevin

I hope you people who seem to be second guessing the engineer on the
train are in yourselves qualified locomotive engineers with lots of through
freight experience. If you are NOT, you have no business questioning the
judgement that the engineer used.
For the record, in any case when a train hits a vehicle on a crossing or
for that matter any other unusual happening, the first thing that company
management will do is to pull the tapes. They had better show that the
engineer did the right thing. Hitting a vehicle is an emergency situation
and clearly emergency braking is called for in this situation. Try hitting a
school bus or a car loaded with kids and have the tapes show that you did
not put the train in emergency and see what happens. It will be a field
day for lawyers and very unpleasant for the engineer.
What really needs to be done is for local authorities to take much more
seriously the fact that people show incredible disrespect for railroad grade
crossings. Where I live, I see it all the time, people stop right on the
tracks in a heavy stopped traffic situation and totally disregard the
crossing lights and gates as well. Nothing annoys me any more than when
I stop clear of a crossing when in heavy traffic and then to have the idiot
behind me honk on his horn because I am stopped.
We have two major railroad lines here in Fort Lauderdale, one with 50 plus
movements a day and the other with 25 plus movements a day so grade
crossings need to be taken very seriously. The line in Ohio where the
derailment occurred is extremely busy too, the crossings need to be
taken very seriously there too.
Noel Weaver

You guys don't have any fun here. There are other forums where the speculation has moved from a car running the gates to dragging equipment throwing a hand switch to a hobo dropping a bag of spikes. I'm telling you, fling the B.S. and have some fun.

railohio wrote:You guys don't have any fun here. There are other forums where the speculation has moved from a car running the gates to dragging equipment throwing a hand switch to a hobo dropping a bag of spikes. I'm telling you, fling the B.S. and have some fun.

I am sorry, my friend, but I was a locomotive engineer for a long time
and when a non engineer starts second guessing what an engineer did in
a situation like the one mentioned here, I TAKE OFFENSE.
Noel Weaver

Apparently he didn't do what was originally speculated. The cause now seems to be dragging equipment at an industry spur.

Derailment probe cites loose chain

The conjecture, as reported in the Toledo Blade, sounds like spin and coverup.

Imagine. A dragging chain...throwing a switch? ESPECIALLY these new Ergonomic switch handles.

No, I ain't buying it. CSX has ZERO credibility with me and this draws from even THAT.

The switch does not have to be completely reversed to cause a derailment. It only takes a sufficient gap between the switch point and the stock rail to allow a wheel to drop to cause a general derailment.

I know what you mean CR engineer. But I guess I could put this one in the possable catagory. I feel freekeyer stuff has happended. But what I dont get is all this talk of "Oh lets put the handles on in the other direction, away from the normal direction of travel.". Hello Q37529 was running in the opposit direction! It was traveling west on #2 main to turn at Deshler. So what good would it do to change the handle to the other direction. If this was the case (chain draging) the only possable solution (now this is a assumption that the chain was on one of the three? flats) is to make shure all empty flats are free of anything when pulled from a industry.

Something like that did happen a number of years ago I heard up on the Central Vertmont{now NEC}, a cable from an Mt lumber car grabbed a swith and threw it under the train. The cable wouldn't have to throw the handle but just give the switch rod a good yank to momentarily open the points. This is just one reason to check those cables when we pull a lumber yard.

Railjunkie wrote:A couple of things condition of the rail, brakes on the rolling stock along with the in train forces that happen everytime you put the brakes on. A train traveling at speed will be stretched out like a string held taught when the brakes apply the train will start to bunch up, air travels from front to back and bounces back and forth till the air equalizes hence the cars towards the front of the train will have more braking power than towards the rear.

Brake systems of freight trains have improved tremendously most apply at pretty much the same time and release the same. If a train is in emergency an engineer if under power will bail off the independent to keep it streached out then gradually bunch it after loss of power. What your talking about is the old days of AB an ABD brakes that were dangerous in an emergency application. Any emergency brake application is cause for alarm but if the engineer does the right thing at first sign of trouble things should work out fine.

On the question of putting a train in to emergency when hitting a car there really isn't any rules that specifically will answer this correctly. To most of us our train is the most important concern, but attorneys for the car drivers always question when was the train placed in to emergency before or after impact. It's a dumb question depending on train tonnage ect...even in emergency it could still take up to a mile to stop. They way I see it if I'm hauling manifest having tankers and hazmats I'll stop my train in a safe manner you'll already hit the car so placing it in emergency to early is futile.

Mr. Noel Weaver-
Regarding your post of December 1, 2006 -
Your response to these comments was outstanding and right on the money. I have had three fatalities during a 37 year career as an engineer in both freight and passenger service and if anything at all from the events recorder had indicated that I had not done everything possible to avoid an accident I would no longer have a job.

Many thanks for setting the record straight - very well done.