Superliner Replacement Request For Proposal Released

Trains has announced Amtrak dropped the Superliner replacement RFP today.

Click here to read the article: Amtrak issues Request for Proposals to replace bilevel long-distance equipment

Brief quote:

Amtrak’s release did not indicate whether the RFP specifies single-level or bilevel equipment, or what the deadline will be for carbuilders to respond. Trains News Wire is waiting for a response to those and other questions; however, a notice on the Amtrak Procurement Portal providing builders with advance notification of the RFP says it will be “to provide bilevel equipment” as well as supplies and technical support.

At this time, it appears the RFP itself isn’t being publicly released.

Amtrak Media Release:

WASHINGTON – Amtrak is taking a major step towards improving overnight, cross-country train travel by issuing a formal Request for Proposals (RFP) to railcar manufacturers to begin the replacement of Amtrak’s current Long Distance fleet.

This once-in-a-generation, multi-billion-dollar procurement will start reequipping a fleet that provides vital train service from coast to coast and is made possible through funding provided by President Biden’s Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and Congress.

“We believe in the future of our Long Distance service,” said Amtrak Board Chair Tony Coscia. “Amtrak’s Long Distance network provides vital mobility and an economic link for communities around the country. A new Amtrak Long Distance fleet will help us modernize and transform the service to meet the needs of customers now and into the future.”

This new fleet will allow Amtrak to introduce an updated product that meets current and future market expectations, improves customer experience, reimagines onboard accessibility and mobility, improves operational efficiency, and bolsters sustainability, resiliency, and ridership.

“Procuring new equipment for our Long Distance trains is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reimagine our iconic routes through a modern, accessible, and sustainable fleet,” said Amtrak President Roger Harris.

This step follows a formal Request for Information (RFI) issued in December 2022—sent to potential railcar builders defining and describing the scope of replacing the Long Distance fleet. Multiple suppliers responded to the RFI in early 2023, which helped to shape this RFP.

The RFP outlines requirements to improve core elements of Long Distance service, including coach seating, private rooms, food service, enhanced accessibility, and route experience. Following vendor selection, critical steps of final design, development and production are expected to occur over the next several years. Fleet deliveries are projected to begin in the early 2030s.

“The Federal Railroad Administration firmly believes that intercity passenger rail service, including Long Distance service, has an important role to play in America’s transportation network,” said FRA Administrator Amit Bose. “Millions of Americans depend on Long Distance service annually as a transportation alternative to congested highways and airports, and they deserve a modern, safe, and convenient experience.”

The Long Distance fleet replacement RFP is one of several Amtrak investments aimed at upgrading and enhancing the Long Distance customer experience—including refreshing passenger car interiors, restoring stored equipment to active service and improving stations, onboard amenities, sales and support channels. These recent highlights specifically include:

Purchasing 125 ALC-42 Long Distance locomotives, with more than three dozen already in service. Made in the U.S., these locomotives are cleaner, faster, more fuel efficient and more environmentally friendly than their predecessors.
Investing $28 million for interior upgrades to 400 bi-level Superliner and 49 Viewliner cars. Nearly 200 Superliner cars have been refreshed and are now in revenue service and the Viewliner refresh will begin in 2024.
Restoring and repairing 63 idled railcars by the end of 2024.
“Designers, suppliers, and the traveling public have all been waiting for a long time for this exciting news. Issuing this RFP kicks off what will be the biggest rolling stock acquisition since the 1940s, when the New York Central turned to three manufacturers for a blockbuster order for more than 700 cars,” said Rail Passengers Association President & CEO Jim Mathews. “Rail passengers deserve a safe, modern, clean, reliable and exciting onboard experience, and today’s announcement is a vital step in ensuring that for generations to come.”

Amtrak Long Distance ridership grew by more than 12% across the network in FY23 (Oct. 2022-Sept. 2023), serving nearly 3.9 million customer trips.

I think Amtrak has a real LD service transformative opportunity here. If they can get equipment that conforms to height/width requirements for both the East and North River tunnels, western LD's can start further east than Chicago. Now, is that a good idea? Is it practical? No idea. Just throwing it out there...

All I can do is reiterate what the CUS offices washroom walls heard during May '71; "they'll be gone in five years".

Of course, those washrooms and the offices they served have all been gutted for an intended hotel, which kind of got "shelved" by COVID - so who knows, if ever, the redevelopment of these MILW and PRR office spaces will resume.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 5:59 am I think Amtrak has a real LD service transformative opportunity here. If they can get equipment that conforms to height/width requirements for both the East and North River tunnels, western LD's can start further east than Chicago. Now, is that a good idea? Is it practical? No idea. Just throwing it out there...

I disagree, even Europeans have double level HSR trains. Having 5 restrooms on a Superliner coach car, or twice as many restrooms on a Superliner sleeper car, is required on a two or possibly three night train ride. As is, a quarter of them are usually clogged and out of service by trip end, can you imagine what that would be like on a car with significantly less restrooms? The longest sleeper train using single level Viewliners and Amfleet 2s is just one night.
I suggest you would not wish to be riding on them after two nights of continuous service, the smell would be harrowing. Eeewwww!

Amtrak did run the Sunset Limited from Los Angeles to Miami for a while (I took it in 1999 from El Paso to Jacksonville); this was 24 years ago, so I don't recall how it was serviced en route, but I don't see why cars couldn't be serviced in route.

From recently riding the Carolinian in one direction and the Silver Star in the other between Alexandria and Raleigh, I can attest that the Amfleet II bathrooms just stay nicer than the Amfleet I bathrooms mostly because the Amfleet I toilet is open above a chemical tank like a porta-john toilet while the Amfleet II toilets are vacuum flushed (I think). If the new LD fleet has reasonably / externally ventilated bathrooms with vacuum flush retention toilets and Amtrak schedules in emptying the toilets en route (at say, stations a day's travel from each other, so something like LA / Denver / Chicago / Boston for a Boston to LA service), it could work; if not, I think the for LD cars, it would be nicer to have a toilet to seat ratio of 1 to 20 (Superliner coach) vs 1 to 30 (Amfleet II) anyway.

I'd think that if they could design the LD fleet to make it easier to take HEP from ground sources or onboard batteries for a couple of hours, it would allow far more flexibility in terms of through services if all LD trains were single level (in that a Seattle to Miami sleeper could be run and the car could retain independent on board power while being switched in Chicago and Washington) even if current LD train patterns are kept. (When the Capitol Limited was a mixture of Amfleet and Heritage fleet cars, there was a Miami to Chicago coach).

All that said, it may also make sense to try to minimize the number of host railroads a train uses so you don't have (say) BNSF upset at being handed a train that is 4 hours off it's scheduled slot due to NS, so maybe you don't want to have to hold the Empire Builder for late sleeper off the Cardinal.

I'd think that if they could design the LD fleet to make it easier to take HEP from ground sources or onboard batteries for a couple of hours, it would allow far more flexibility in terms of through services if all LD trains were single level …

That will not happen. Even the news release clearly says bilevel. That’s a done deal.

The press release by Amtrak does not mention bilevel cars except to mention that 400 Superliners and 49 Viewliners are undergoing interior refurbishment.

RandallW wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 2:42 pm The press release by Amtrak does not mention bilevel cars except to mention that 400 Superliners and 49 Viewliners are undergoing interior refurbishment.

From the Trains e article…

Responses from manufacturers are due by May 17, 2024. The request is for bilevel equipment, “as it is Amtrak’s highest priority to replace the oldest portion of the long distance fleet,“ Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari said in an emailed response to questions from Trains News Wire.

RandallW wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 12:11 pm ...If the new LD fleet has reasonably / externally ventilated bathrooms with vacuum flush retention toilets and Amtrak schedules in emptying the toilets en route (at say, stations a day's travel from each other, so something like LA / Denver / Chicago / Boston for a Boston to LA service), it could work; if not, I think the for LD cars, it would be nicer to have a toilet to seat ratio of 1 to 20 (Superliner coach) vs 1 to 30 (Amfleet II) anyway.

I'd think that if they could design the LD fleet to make it easier to take HEP from ground sources or onboard batteries for a couple of hours, it would allow far more flexibility in terms of through services if all LD trains were single level (in that a Seattle to Miami sleeper could be run and the car could retain independent on board power while being switched in Chicago and Washington) even if current LD train patterns are kept. (When the Capitol Limited was a mixture of Amfleet and Heritage fleet cars, there was a Miami to Chicago coach).

All that said, it may also make sense to try to minimize the number of host railroads a train uses so you don't have (say) BNSF upset at being handed a train that is 4 hours off it's scheduled slot due to NS, so maybe you don't want to have to hold the Empire Builder for late sleeper off the Cardinal.

My first, pre-coffee thought on this was initially "Biggest application of Qi wireless charging!!!" Now that I have my coffee, we can double-check things. Of course, I'm assuming a 15'-16' Superliner replacement, not my compact "mini-double" used in my stories.

I'm with you on the restrooms and getting the brown water tanks flushed out. I can see during a crew change and smoke break that the tanks on the coaches get serviced. 8-12 hours should be the max on those tanks... but ONLY the coaches. The sleepers by comparison are used much less because less people are in there using them. And I agree on the vacuum-flush as well.

That said, providing hotel power during an engine swap or times of idle? Yeah, I can see beefing up existing batteries and adding solar and/or wireless charging equipment (read: a flattened coil and some circuitry to the cars, see Adafruit's Inductive Charger kits for a small scale example). It would need to be turned off before the diesel fires back up again but you'll be able to supply light and toilet flush power.

And for minimizing hand-offs (or "deinterlining")... isn't that already done?

Are there switches that allow HEP on a car to be disconnected such that it would be possible to to safely connect an engine or other car while HEP is on in the car, but the cables are not live where a trainman is working? I'm kind of under the impression the answer is "no", but I'm also under the impression that steam heating lines did have valves that would enable that kind of disconnection?

To charge a battery in a car, I was thinking of using HEP or axle generators, not solar or inductive loops, and for in station power something like used on some trams.

It seems that Chicago and New Orleans provide good places to terminate Amtrak trains to keep trains over UP/BNSF separate from trains over CSX/NS, but while that is operationally beneficial, could there be preferable (from a passenger's POV) traffic patterns were that gateway pattern broken (I am kind of thinking that proposing to extend Crescent services to Texas suggests that Amtrak thinks that to be the case)?

The only actual reference I see to bilevels is mentioning that they are replacing the volume. Maybe I missed something more definitive, but it is entirely possible that everybody commenting publicly in the media is simply assuming a one for one replacement.

I still maintain that a single level Nationwide Fleet is in Amtrak's long-term best interest, and absent seeing the actual language of the RFP, I don't think anybody knows for certain if it will be new build by levels which need to then be certified and pass a crush test, or if suppliers will be proposing existing designs that are already certified and could be manufactured in short order.

I will remind everybody of the process from 10 years ago where the Consortium cars for California, Illinois, and the other midwest states were supposed to be bi-levels.

We know how that Fiasco turned out. So do the existing suppliers.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

I corresponded with Bob Webber, the curator of the Illinois Railroad Museum Library.

Before Bombardier was consumed by Almstom, it sent the Pullman-Standard and Budd records, including erection engineering drawings, to IRM. Almstom has continued this, since it gets paper out of the company.

There are serious conditions on use of donation, including another builder cannot use any of the IP contained. That includes the drawings.

In simple terms, no car in the Almstom heritage will see plan reuse.

RandallW wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 8:30 am Are there switches that allow HEP on a car to be disconnected such that it would be possible to to safely connect an engine or other car while HEP is on in the car, but the cables are not live where a trainman is working? I'm kind of under the impression the answer is "no", but I'm also under the impression that steam heating lines did have valves that would enable that kind of disconnection?

Electrically, they can use diodes to force the power to only go one direction. Still, they shut down power to everything before swapping engines or disconnecting anything.

To charge a battery in a car, I was thinking of using HEP or axle generators, not solar or inductive loops, and for in station power something like used on some trams.

To be honest, don't limit yourself. Use everything!

It seems that Chicago and New Orleans provide good places to terminate Amtrak trains to keep trains over UP/BNSF separate from trains over CSX/NS, but while that is operationally beneficial, could there be preferable (from a passenger's POV) traffic patterns were that gateway pattern broken (I am kind of thinking that proposing to extend Crescent services to Texas suggests that Amtrak thinks that to be the case)?

It's very possible, but it would mean there needs some place to service the equipment in Texas. I forget where at this time.

Amtrak head end power is 480 volts AC three phase, diodes can't be used as diodes would only work for DC power.