Superliner Replacement - Bilevel or Single Level from a different prospective.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:10 am And to add to the fun, how about a "Dog-Park" car. You get those Northeast - Florida pet owners and you got a loyal customer for life.

Mr. Trainguy, the private AT did just that for a while.

Complete with water bowls

Dropped it before "the end"; possibly over "malodorus concerns".

Thank you, Mr. Norman. I didn't know that. I only took it pre-Amtrak once (RT) and I do remember the impressive superdomes and the "Starlight Lounge" with a singing guitarist. I do believe there was a movie too but I was not aware of the "Pet Parlour Car". With all of the new ADA requirements (i.e., service dogs) I am sure that a modern clean potty area could be designed. Cruise ships and many hotels have such.

eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:00 pm

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:10 am It takes a long time to make up the Auto Train as it is. There really is no room for a second section to be assembled especially with the involved auto loading process.

Yeah, that's not what a second section means. The train moves in two pieces, normally with the second section leaving within 20-60 minutes of the first.

It would be possible to have the first section leave with the autoracks, and a second section moving with passenger cars only. You could even spread the time out intentionally to differentiate between the premium service (sleeper) and economy service (coach) and split up the autoracks.

Either way... the limit of 53 cars could be broken with a second section. The platforms at Sanford and Lorton could handle a few more passenger cars with a little creativity.

They already split the passenger cars into two platforms at Sanford to fit the current train and do not appear to have more platform than the train uses at either end or space to lengthen the platforms. This is not an issue at Lorton--it can handle more passenger cars as is.

Yes, this! Since I can work remotely and plane tickets are expensive rn I considered taking the auto train to Florida this winter and working on the train ride down, something I would never have done pre-pandemic. When I learned I would still have to drive through Baltimore and DC I said "no." Avoiding NEC traffic would make it much more appealing.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:10 am

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:28 am Amtrak does not understand the concept of sections. Full stop.

Auto train could easily be two sections.

It takes a long time to make up the Auto Train as it is. There really is no room for a second section to be assembled especially with the involved auto loading process.

A completely separate train to New Jersey, maybe leaving earlier in the day, would be great. I am in Florida now and so many people here say that the drive to Virginia is boring but the easiest part of the journey. It's the drive north of Lorton that they want to avoid so they will not take the Auto Train for that reason. CSX clearance maps do not show autorack service through Philadelphia yet but I believe they are working on it.

Maybe experiment with single-level equipment via the NEC? Are there any low-profile two-level autoracks sitting around? And to add to the fun, how about a "Dog-Park" car. You get those Northeast - Florida pet owners and you got a loyal customer for life.

RandallW wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:52 pm They already split the passenger cars into two platforms at Sanford to fit the current train and do not appear to have more platform than the train uses at either end or space to lengthen the platforms. This is not an issue at Lorton--it can handle more passenger cars as is.

Sanford has two platform tracks today -- one that can handle 6 cars and one that can handle 13 if you're willing to foul the switch ladder to the left. There are also two adjacent tracks that could be used to platform additional cars with minimal construction --- both are 900 feet long, which would facilitate another 10 cars on each track, more than enough. The auto-loading tracks can accommodate ~35 auto carriers without fouling switches, and that presumably wouldn't have to increase.

So there's room with a little bit of creativity.

The bigger question I have for CSX fans is how much Rand Yard is being used today aside from storage? That was the original target for a new Auto Train terminal some 40+ years ago. Maybe it's time to dust off that idea....

Present superliners are liited by the less than ceiling heights. If Amtrak could find some way to raise the clearances at CHI US then it could order some that would be as tall as the present west coast taller bilevels . Amtrak could start by replacing present SL routes for Auto Train, Sunset, and Coast starlight.
That part of an order while the CHI clearance problem is solved . At CHI now is does not even have cleatances for CAT in case Electric service is initiated at Union Station.

The ferrying of Auto Train cars to Beech grove would need a new route as taller car cannot clear the 1st street tunnel . There may be a few station without clearances for taller cars but have no idea where. Probably a few station might need to raise the canopys. these taller car could have entrances to both low level boarding and the standard 4 foot plattforms.

Which bilevels are taller than the Superliners? Wikipedia lists the California Car, Superliner, and Surfliner as being 16' 2".

RandallW wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:34 am I was on an Auto Train this summer any my car (a sleeper) wasn't even 1/2 full and the car ahead of us was empty. Amtrak is making revenue not by filling trains, but by being expensive.

That’s hardly the case every day. As I’m sure you know there’s a large seasonal variation as far as demand. Today’s southbound shows only one room open and tomorrow rooms are sold out. And that is 8 sleepers. So clearly there is a demand for it.

Nobody's questioning the sleepers selling out. How full is coach?...

I forget sleeper max capacity, but it's around 50-55, right? Coaches carry 75?

8 sleepers = about 400-440 plus 4 coaches = 300. Today's southbound shows 90% full, which hints that coaches are only really 75% full give or take...

west point wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:40 pm . . . If Amtrak could find some way to raise the clearances at CHI US then it could order some that would be as tall as the present west coast taller bilevels . . .

If you can do that then why not go all the way? If Amtrak went the Ultradome route then you are talking maximum efficiency. Two full floors maybe even with two passage ways. It would be like stacking two Viewliners one on top of the other. I don't think you can get more space efficient than this:

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:24 pm Could a NJT/MARC/AMT-EXO/SEPTA Multilevel be modified into the next gen Superliner?

If you're talking about a Bombardier Multilevel used with NJT/MARC (MARC IV), it's a Farnsworth "no but yes."

No, current builds cannot be modified into next-gen Superliners.

But yes, you can use them as a basis for a next-gen Superliner. I've been toying with some designs using said Multilevel as a jumping-off point. I did it as reference material for the sequel to my novel (see signature below). It does have a mix of low-level and high-level boarding, and allows for wheelchair access from one end of the train to the other, mostly upper with select cars behind a hybrid with integrated lifts.

Now will it work with the same economies of scale? Maybe. That's 14' 6" from rail to top of car. Realistically you got maybe 7' of room. 1.5' of that will be made of seats/lower bunk. That's 5.5' of space for the upper bunk plus actual space for folks to snooze in... or basically 2.5' of room.... which may be more than enough. But it'll probably be a bit more cramped.

I'll play around with a sleeper concept with the template I have in LibreOffice. I already have a coach and the diner I can adjust... although, if I can get the dimensions of the steps used in the Superliner (how tall each step is) I may be able to fit in the lift system.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:38 am

west point wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:40 pm . . . If Amtrak could find some way to raise the clearances at CHI US then it could order some that would be as tall as the present west coast taller bilevels . . .

If you can do that then why not go all the way? If Amtrak went the Ultradome route then you are talking maximum efficiency. Two full floors maybe even with two passage ways. It would be like stacking two Viewliners one on top of the other. I don't think you can get more space efficient than this:

But Amtrak's long distance trains in the West and Midwest almost all go to Chicago, which has vertical clearance issues at Union Station. Superliners and Gallery cars are about as tall as they can get.

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:47 am But Amtrak's long distance trains in the West and Midwest almost all go to Chicago, which has vertical clearance issues at Union Station. Superliners and Gallery cars are about as tall as they can get.

west point was asking what if the clearances could be raised. I don't know if that is possible but I was suggesting going the Ultradome route if it was possible to do that.

Now what is below the tracks in Chicago? Maybe a couple of through tracks can be lowered? Of course platforms would have to be rebuilt too since everything is low platform there.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:19 am Now what is below the tracks in Chicago? Maybe a couple of through tracks can be lowered? Of course platforms would have to be rebuilt too since everything is low platform there.

Been down there, Mr. Trainguy when I was with the MILW. The area was used for baggage and mail handling, there also were crew bunks which sufficed prior to "suitable lodging" provisions were negotiated into Train & Engine Agreements.

But why would Amtrak ever consider a car with a higher profile than a Superliner?

Lest we forget, Superliners have shown a tendency to "topple" a bit quicker than single-level cars. They also have ADA issues possibly requiring an elevator in each car to be deemed compliant.

As you might know, Mr. Norman, the newest Ultradomes do have elevators so that is doable. As far as the "topple" issue, I do not have any details on the center of gravity of these cars but do consider that the Ultradomes have all their mechanicals and tanks under the bottom floor (4 ') level and the Superliners actually have their mechanicals about this level. I would guess the Ultra domes are just as stable if not more so than the Superliners but since one has never toppled over (thank the Rail Gods) I don't know. I'm sure some engineer somewhere knows the facts.