St. Lawrence & Atlantic Railroad (SLR/SLQ)

The more I've been looking into it, the more I'm feeling that sale of the SLR is unlikely. The best comparison is with the HCRY - which G&W DID plan on abandoning. Here's the way I see it:

HCRY never made a profit for G&W, so their tracks fell into disrepair. They have since received federal and provincial funding, which will allow them to bring track speed from 10 to 25 mph. They rely on two shippers for 80% of their freight.

Several sources I've been able to find state that the SLR has consistently made a profit. They are in the process of upgrading tracks to handle 286k carloads, with existing track speeds already at 25 to 40 mph. Federal and provincial governments have committed funding towards these upgrades.

G&W for now has committed to keeping the HCRY running despite the challenges it faces. It would make no sense for them to drop a more profitable railroad with a better infrastructure.

(some information taken from the following:)
http://www.saultthisweek.com/ArticleDis ... ?e=2788088

I had heard that well over a month ago now. I had heard other portions to that rumor that if true will start to show this month. I'll wait and see on that. But like I said before, they are still maintaining the tracks, and that is usually the first thing to go so it is probably not true.

Mike

Mike, I think you have heard the same thing I have; 393/394 will be reduced to trwice a week service before the
month is out.

trainiac wrote:Several sources I've been able to find state that the SLR has consistently made a profit. They are in the process of upgrading tracks to handle 286k carloads, with existing track speeds already at 25 to 40 mph. Federal and provincial governments have committed funding towards these upgrades.

So what I'm reading is that SLR continues to make a "profit" due to attractive line sales (to government) and continued track maintenance/improvement subsidies? That is not a sustainable business model.

I have a question about the 286k issue. What percentage of SLR's traffic is local/originated/received? I was under the impression that a substantial portion was interchanged with PAR. If that's the case, how much will 286k help SLR, given that PAR is stil 263k?

What needs to happen: (1) GW shuts down SLR because there's no business to support it. (2) the State rushes to the rescue and buys the (remainder of the) line for $XX million, (3) a new quasi-government organization (probably called something like "The RT 26 Corridor Economic Development Coalition") is put into action to resurrect the line. (4) MDOT spends $X million on multiple freight/passenger studies, each one rosier than the prior. (5) Awareness is raised that the only path to economic development in the region is by rehabbing the rail line. (6) Bond issuance for $XX million to rehab line. (7) Assignment of designated operator. At that point, industry will be expected to magically appear trackside because NOW there's finally rail service in the area!

Mike, I think you have heard the same thing I have; 393/394 will be reduced to trwice a week service before the
month is out.

I had not heard that. Where have you been finding this out? I've been looking for such information without success.

Trainac,
not posted anywhere. Heard it through the grapevine.

One thing I have noticed. The Intermodal yard has been getting slower. CSX out of Mass. is kicking their butt. I see those containers in several places in southern Maine.

Cowford, this is what I eluded to a few weeks back in our other lively discussion we have been having, around the time gpcog made an appearance.

Mike

Cowford wrote:

trainiac wrote:Several sources I've been able to find state that the SLR has consistently made a profit. They are in the process of upgrading tracks to handle 286k carloads, with existing track speeds already at 25 to 40 mph. Federal and provincial governments have committed funding towards these upgrades.

So what I'm reading is that SLR continues to make a "profit" due to attractive line sales (to government) and continued track maintenance/improvement subsidies? That is not a sustainable business model.

I have a question about the 286k issue. What percentage of SLR's traffic is local/originated/received? I was under the impression that a substantial portion was interchanged with PAR. If that's the case, how much will 286k help SLR, given that PAR is stil 263k?

What needs to happen: (1) GW shuts down SLR because there's no business to support it. (2) the State rushes to the rescue and buys the (remainder of the) line for $XX million, (3) a new quasi-government organization (probably called something like "The RT 26 Corridor Economic Development Coalition") is put into action to resurrect the line. (4) MDOT spends $X million on multiple freight/passenger studies, each one rosier than the prior. (5) Awareness is raised that the only path to economic development in the region is by rehabbing the rail line. (6) Bond issuance for $XX million to rehab line. (7) Assignment of designated operator. At that point, industry will be expected to magically appear trackside because NOW there's finally rail service in the area!

and the alternative would be... Lets all move away? Hey, I dont know how old you guys are, but I'm planning on being here for a long time. I'd rather the current generation leave me and my friends SOMETHING to work with... But hey, its a lot easier to complain and bitch and moan than to see past your shadow...

Here's what I think needs to happen: The state should sell all of their main roads, starting with I-95 and followed by Rt. 1, 2, 302, 113 etc... Private bidders will line up to get a piece of Rt.196 when its time to bid. Town roads will remain the towns responsibility. Bridges will be subsidized at first and later sold to subcontractors. After this is accomplished we can finally realize our dream of an end to government waste! Just think about it... No more taxes! Businesses will blossom!
Or maybe we can take all of that money from the privatized roads and put them into public rail right of ways. Opposition will be nonexistent since Cowford and miketrainnut will have long since disappeared into reeducation camps...

Cowford, this is what I eluded to a few weeks back in our other lively discussion we have been having, around the time gpcog made an appearance.

Why don't you guys get maaarrrriieeddd

4266, I'm only trying to make the point that Maine has two (essentially) parallel lines (the Mountain and the SLR) ~35 miles apart; one is long-dead, and the other is in decline. If the argument to rehab the former is valid, then it stands to reason that economic development along the latter would be noticeably stronger, because there is already a viable line there, open for- and in need of- business. But it's not, is it? Outside of L-A, it looks like on-line business is down to NEPW in S Paris and Mechanic Falls, and Maine Wood Treaters in Mechanic Falls... despite several other forest products operations being located adjacent to the line... is this correct? The more alarming aspect of the line's future is that if the line is closed as an overhead route and pruned back to a 20-mile Danville Jct-S Paris branch, the lack of its competitive outlet to the west with erode the remaining business further.

Look, I'm definitely not saying that having an active rail line in a community doesn't help the cause of industrial development. But to argue that rehabbing a line will necessarily prompt industrial development is naive, overly simplistic, and ignores history, e.g., Lewiston Lower rehab, Rockland branch rehab... evolving logistics practices and Maine's industrial decline have caused the shrinkage/decay of its rail infrastructure, not the other way around.

4266,

I don't know why you seem to think I can't look past my shadow. Just because we have opposing views in one area does not mean my way of thinking is wrong. And neither is yours. I have been open minded to your discussions, thinking about what you have been saying or trying to say. Unlike they way you have tolerated mine.

And we already have privatized roads in the State. It is called the Maine Turnpike.

Toll booths at the end of the roads you suggest should solve the problem. Then we can put draw bridges on all rail lines leading anywhere and charge big bucks to let the trains through. That should solve everything.

Mike

Mike, I think you have heard the same thing I have; 393/394 will be reduced to trwice a week service before the month is out.

I had not heard that. Where have you been finding this out? I've been looking for such information without success.

Still curious about this... AFAIK they are currently running 5 days a week - at the very least, I've caught 394 on every weekday of different weeks during the summer and fall. To cut back to 2 days a week would mean 1 of 2 things: Either they are planning on altering the current locomotive grouping system and running 100-150 car trains with more power (standard pair of slug sets is good for at most 80-90 cars on grades) or else traffic is much lower than I thought and the trains I have seen were just exceptionally long.

As of 4 days ago, SLR president Mario Brault claimed the railroad "consistently turns a profit."

You be the judge.

http://www.saultthisweek.com/ArticleDis ... ?e=2788088


Also if you get a chance to get to Danville, I suggest y'all do it soon.

Cowford wrote:

trainiac wrote:Several sources I've been able to find state that the SLR has consistently made a profit. They are in the process of upgrading tracks to handle 286k carloads, with existing track speeds already at 25 to 40 mph. Federal and provincial governments have committed funding towards these upgrades.

So what I'm reading is that SLR continues to make a "profit" due to attractive line sales (to government) and continued track maintenance/improvement subsidies? That is not a sustainable business model.

I have a question about the 286k issue. What percentage of SLR's traffic is local/originated/received? I was under the impression that a substantial portion was interchanged with PAR. If that's the case, how much will 286k help SLR, given that PAR is stil 263k?

What needs to happen: (1) GW shuts down SLR because there's no business to support it. (2) the State rushes to the rescue and buys the (remainder of the) line for $XX million, (3) a new quasi-government organization (probably called something like "The RT 26 Corridor Economic Development Coalition") is put into action to resurrect the line. (4) MDOT spends $X million on multiple freight/passenger studies, each one rosier than the prior. (5) Awareness is raised that the only path to economic development in the region is by rehabbing the rail line. (6) Bond issuance for $XX million to rehab line. (7) Assignment of designated operator. At that point, industry will be expected to magically appear trackside because NOW there's finally rail service in the area!

Question for all- does StL&A/GWR actually own the tracks and ROW, or is the underlying land still owned by the Grand Trunk Corporation?

Ridgefielder, I think they own everything, but am not certain. There were some parts that are stillowned by others, Norway Railroad Company or something to that effect owns the remnants of the Norway Branch. And I think the same thing for the Lewiston Branch. Parts of that are owned by the Lewiston/Auburn Railroad I think (if you can believe the newspaper). I have tried looking up tax maps to see who owns the land but can't get the right info I am looking for.


Also, noticed today MTM is near MP 88 or 89 in New Hampshire laying out new ties. Doesn't sound like someone who is cutting back or looking to sell to me.


Mike

Also, noticed today MTM is near MP 88 or 89 in New Hampshire laying out new ties. Doesn't sound like someone who is cutting back or looking to sell to me.

Here in QC, many of the crossing signals have just been upgraded to LED lights, and one I passed today is in the process of receiving gates. New rail and ties in Lennoxville, QC as well.

I don't see them often enough to get a good idea of how much traffic they are running, but SLR 394 today had 5 units and 93 cars. If they are running anything close to that 5 days a week that's on par with previous years.

The latest I heard about the Gorham mill is that they're waiting to hear back from a potential buyer. If the deal falls through it will close by the end of the month. I would hope that SLR has seen this possibility coming and made appropriate contingency plans. Perhaps these maintenance projects are part of a "fix-it-now before we have to weather the storm" strategy?