Some Naugy questions

1) The Naugy was brought down to single track north of Ansonia in 1950 and was never signaled north of there. What was the purpose of this? I know Farrell used to be a major company in the Ansonia and Derby area. Was there not enough traffic north of there to justify two tracks and signaling for the whole distance?

2) When was the single tracking and removal of signals all the way down to Devon accomplished?

3) This one is reaching way back - where did the NH & Derby RR join the line? I'm led to believe it was somewhere south of Derby Jct but can't find anything obvious on satellite imagery.

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers - I grew up in Ansonia and have always been fascinated by the history of what once existed in the area.

Single track operation was substituted for double track operation between Ansonia and Bank Street Junction, Waterbury effective on January 15, 1950. A timetable supplement was issued to cover these changes. The line was at one time double track ABS east of Bank Street Junction but between Bank Street Junction and Ansonia it was never ABS territory. Rule 318 provided for MBS rules for following trains on double track while rule 317 provided for MBS rules for both following and opposing trains. When single track operation took effect rule 317 also took effect in place of 318. At this time there were six passenger trains each way a day although at times they ran seven or eight after 1950. There was the Cedar Hill - Waterbury Local, DN-1, DN-3 and ND-2 for two round trips to Cedar Hill plus the Hartford - Maybrook round trip and the locals. There was also a switcher 24/7 in Derby to do the switching in Derby, Shelton and Ansonia.
The railroad figured that single track could handle the traffic that was being hanled on two tracks east of Ansonia. They left portions of the second track in place in Seymour, Beacon Falls and Naugatuck for switching purposes.
There were other lines that were changed from double to single track as well during this period.
Noel Weaver

Double track between Derby Junction and Devon lasted into the Conrail years. A flood in the late 70s or thereabouts washed out the line south of Derby and when it was restored it was one track only. Someone may have a more exact date.

Regarding the New Haven & Derby, the line diverged to the east just below Derby Junction, at the north end of the former Turkey Brook yard, and climbed up an embankment to exit the Housatonic valley. The right-of-way was clearly visible into the 1980s but I haven't been there in years so I don't know how much can be seen now. Originally, going back to the late 19th century, the current Metro North line between Derby Jct. and Ansonia was owned by the NH&D and the ancestral Naugatuck RR ran parallel to it on the east side of the river, connecting in at Bridge Street in Ansonia. When the NH took over both lines they abandoned most of the trackage on the east side of the river between Derby and Ansonia, although about half a mile of that line in Ansonia lasted into the 1960s. Flood wall construction in the 1970s basically obliterated it.

Noel Weaver wrote:... plus the Hartford - Maybrook round trip...

Noel what was the full routing for this train? Was it primarily for through traffic from or via Hartford?

Thanks

Tommy Meehan wrote:

Noel Weaver wrote:... plus the Hartford - Maybrook round trip...

Noel what was the full routing for this train? Was it primarily for through traffic from or via Hartford?

Thanks

In the 40's and 50's the routing for Hartford - Maybrook was Hartford, Waterbury, Derby and around the wye to the Maybrook Line then common routing to Maybrook. These jobs always worked in both directions at Waterbury and I suspect the trains were much, much shorter east of Waterbury because during those years Waterbury originated and terminated a huge amount of freight. On these jobs both the engine and train crews ran through between Hartford and Maybrook.
Noel Weaver

Thanks to everyone who posted - exactly the info I was looking for. It's mind-boggling to think how much activity once existed and how it's been completely decimated.

Originally, going back to the late 19th century, the current Metro North line between Derby Jct. and Ansonia was owned by the NH&D and the ancestral Naugatuck RR ran parallel to it on the east side of the river, connecting in at Bridge Street in Ansonia.

A-ha! That explains the parallel lines between Ansonia and Derby one sometimes finds on old maps like this one.

Two postcards below show the old Naugatuck ROW around 1909 & 1911 in Derby.




A larger image you can click on.
http://al-g.smugmug.com/Trains/Naugatuc ... VTqXj-O-LB

TomNelligan wrote:Double track between Derby Junction and Devon lasted into the Conrail years. A flood in the late 70s or thereabouts washed out the line south of Derby and when it was restored it was one track only. Someone may have a more exact date.

I do -- it was June 1982

Noel Weaver wrote: In the 40's and 50's the routing for Hartford - Maybrook was Hartford, Waterbury, Derby and around the wye to the Maybrook Line then common routing to Maybrook. These jobs always worked in both directions at Waterbury and I suspect the trains were much, much shorter east of Waterbury because during those years Waterbury originated and terminated a huge amount of freight. On these jobs both the engine and train crews ran through between Hartford and Maybrook.
Noel Weaver

The DVD "New Haven in the 1950s" (sold by the NHRHTA --- see http://www.nhrhta.org ) featuring films by the late great Kent W Cochrane, contains footage of the Hartford-Maybrook freights up on the Highland (east of Waterbury) in about 1952-53. Get this if you want to see how long they were and what they looked like in that period

This is why Noel is such an asset to this board. Noel, wasn't this was your home territory, at least for a while?

And, personally, I wish MNRR/CDOT would rename this line the Naugatuck.

Noel Weaver wrote:Single track operation was substituted for double track operation between Ansonia and Bank Street Junction, Waterbury effective on January 15, 1950. A timetable supplement was issued to cover these changes. The line was at one time double track ABS east of Bank Street Junction but between Bank Street Junction and Ansonia it was never ABS territory. Rule 318 provided for MBS rules for following trains on double track while rule 317 provided for MBS rules for both following and opposing trains. When single track operation took effect rule 317 also took effect in place of 318. At this time there were six passenger trains each way a day although at times they ran seven or eight after 1950. There was the Cedar Hill - Waterbury Local, DN-1, DN-3 and ND-2 for two round trips to Cedar Hill plus the Hartford - Maybrook round trip and the locals. There was also a switcher 24/7 in Derby to do the switching in Derby, Shelton and Ansonia.
The railroad figured that single track could handle the traffic that was being hanled on two tracks east of Ansonia. They left portions of the second track in place in Seymour, Beacon Falls and Naugatuck for switching purposes.
There were other lines that were changed from double to single track as well during this period.
Noel Weaver

Jeff Smith wrote:This is why Noel is such an asset to this board. Noel, wasn't this was your home territory, at least for a while?

And, personally, I wish MNRR/CDOT would rename this line the Naugatuck.

Noel Weaver wrote:Single track operation was substituted for double track operation between Ansonia and Bank Street Junction, Waterbury effective on January 15, 1950. A timetable supplement was issued to cover these changes. The line was at one time double track ABS east of Bank Street Junction but between Bank Street Junction and Ansonia it was never ABS territory. Rule 318 provided for MBS rules for following trains on double track while rule 317 provided for MBS rules for both following and opposing trains. When single track operation took effect rule 317 also took effect in place of 318. At this time there were six passenger trains each way a day although at times they ran seven or eight after 1950. There was the Cedar Hill - Waterbury Local, DN-1, DN-3 and ND-2 for two round trips to Cedar Hill plus the Hartford - Maybrook round trip and the locals. There was also a switcher 24/7 in Derby to do the switching in Derby, Shelton and Ansonia.
The railroad figured that single track could handle the traffic that was being hanled on two tracks east of Ansonia. They left portions of the second track in place in Seymour, Beacon Falls and Naugatuck for switching purposes.
There were other lines that were changed from double to single track as well during this period.
Noel Weaver

Jeff, THANK YOU for your kind remarks, I sure appreciate them. I hired out on the New Haven Railroad in Waterbury as Engine Dispatcher in 1956 but when the roundhouse was closed in the summer of 1958, I displaced to Stamford and later 49th Street at Grand Central Terminal and never regularly worked in or around Waterbury after that. After I went in to locomotive service in January, 1960 I worked out of New York, New Haven, Springfield, New London, Danbury and Maybrook as a fireman. I got to Waterbury a number of times but it was off my home division. I also got to Pittsfield, Mass a few times but again it was off my home division as was Maybrook. In the 60's my motto was I''ll go anywhere and I did.
I also grew up in the Naugatuck Valley in Torrington and later Waterbury. I was really lucky in 1956 as the New Haven systemwide and in all crafts did not hire 100 employees that entire year but I was one that they did.
It was suggested to me this past week that I was missed on the NHRHTA forum but insulting remarks by two individuals there back in early 2010 resulted in my decision to no longer post there and except for a couple of remarks about old time employees, I have pretty much stuck to that decision. That site is now mostly for model enthusiasts and as I can not contribute to their mission, I don't even read it regularly. This is the place for historical stuff on the New Haven Railroad and not the NHRHTA. I have not bothered with a table at their reunion and train show for the last couple of years either and probably will not do it again this year.
Noel Weaver

Jeff-
The good news is that the name " Naugatuck" is being carried on quite well by the Railroad Museaum of New England (RMNE) . It 's operating arm is known as the Naugatuck Railroad with reporting marks "NAUG" and the name "NAUGATUCK" on lots of its stock.
I agree that it would be great for it to still be the Naugatuck Line, but I will take what we have.....

Indeed it is.

Noel Weaver wrote:
It was suggested to me this past week that I was missed on the NHRHTA forum but insulting remarks by two individuals there back in early 2010 resulted in my decision to no longer post there and except for a couple of remarks about old time employees, I have pretty much stuck to that decision. That site is now mostly for model enthusiasts and as I can not contribute to their mission, I don't even read it regularly. This is the place for historical stuff on the New Haven Railroad and not the NHRHTA. I have not bothered with a table at their reunion and train show for the last couple of years either and probably will not do it again this year.
Noel Weaver

Yes indeed there are some "right" thinkers who miss you on the "other" forum (myself for one). I'd like to take all your posts over time, aggregate them together, and publish them as "Weaver's memoirs," or something of that nature. It would be a great hit, kind of like a modern-era Lines West (the 1951 memoirs self-published by New Haven engineer Philip Blakeslee [1877-1962]}

For the benefit of anyone else who might stumble across this thread, I'd like to post this link to an incredibly thorough website I recently found:

http://tylercitystation.info/id4b.html

That page and the next one in the series answered every question I could possibly conceive of about the NH&D in Derby and Ansonia. A fantastic resource.