• Sixth Street Embankment (Harsimus Stem) HBLR / Rail Trail

  • General discussion related to Rail Trails nationwide, including proposed rail trail routes. The official site of the Rails-To-Trails Conservancy can be found here: www.railstotrails.org.
General discussion related to Rail Trails nationwide, including proposed rail trail routes. The official site of the Rails-To-Trails Conservancy can be found here: www.railstotrails.org.

Moderator: railtrailbiker

  by Steve F45
i can remember getting stuck in traffic in weehawking just north of lincoln harbor at that weird intersection. only saw a train come out of the tunnels a few times but definitely sat in traffic while the train blocked the intersection.

  by umtrr-author
Thanks for the photos. I'm a native of Jersey City and I grew up right next to the Harismus Cove line.

The preservation efforts are described at http://www.embankment.org .

Railroad Avenue (where my mother grew up) is now called Christopher Columbus Boulevard. There are scant few published photos of the passenger trains that came into Exchange Place on that trackage. That line was gone before I was born.

I've looked on Google Earth but I think it's out of date now given the photos. Am I right in thinking that there is still trackage that goes up from the National Docks out through the Bergen Tunnel?

  by timz
umtrr-author wrote: there is still trackage that goes up from the National Docks out through the Bergen Tunnel?
Down to the ex-Erie tunnel, you mean. That's still the regular route from Oak Island to Croxton, isn't it? Conrail built that connection, soon after 1976?

  by rbenko
Yes, it is the ONLY direct route from Oak Island to Croxton, and Conrail built the connection.

Here's a link to a map of the area I drew up, with a few notes:

CP Nave

Be sure to maximize the map for easy reading.
  by themallard
Healy said in his address he has had meetings with Port Authority officials about a new PATH station in the Marion section of the city west of Journal Square, and with representatives from the New Jersey Department of Transportation and NJ Transit about the light rail connecting the Newport area of the city with Secaucus.

"Our quality of life will truly be improved if we rely less on cars and improve our mass transportation," Healy said.

The tracks for the Newport-Secaucus connection would run across the Sixth Street Embankment through the Bergen Arches and end at the Secaucus transfer train station near Exit 15X of the New Jersey Turnpike - an idea Healy has been pursuing for about two years.

However, the city still has contend with the fact the rail Embankment is owned by local property owner Steve Hyman, who wants to build two-family homes there. There was controversy over the embankment for a number of years because activists wanted it to be part of a park. The city is going through legal channels contesting Hyman's ownership rights.
Jersey City Reporter

  by harryguy082589
This isn't the proper forum, but would it be possible to put a new PATH line there instead of HBLR?

  by Irish Chieftain
Anything's "possible". But PATH is never going to expand, so that's just a pipe-dream.

As for the scope of the project, it's ridiculously small. I say it's a non-starter. You'd want a light rail project to go beyond Secaucus Junction towards the outlet stores, then onto Meadowland Parkway and towards Mill Creek Mall—and what happened to the rumored Xanadu LRT; did that lose out to the commuter rail spur? (I wonder if NJT will reverse the "Project Complete" status of any capital projects once Warrington leaves?)

The Bergen Arches has room for four tracks. It would be ideal for a route into Hoboken for a DMU-ized Northern Branch/NYSW Cross-County service, if anything related to those rail arteries ever goes forward that is. (Of course, if Newport Mall had just included some room for the railroad to reach Pavonia again, we could rebuild a partial "Erie Terminal" that would have better access to the offices in Jersey City as well as serving said Mall directly plus connecting more effecitvely to both PATH and HBLRT, but that's just another pipe-dream…)

  by Tom V
Extending Light Rail from Newport to Secaucus Transfer would benefit the burgeoning water front of Jersey City, creating commuting oppurtunities for quicker commuters to the business district. It would also connect Bayonne to the rest of the NJ Transit rail network at Secaucus.

  by AndyB
  1. Extending HBLR Newport to Secaucus Junction Transfer by way of the embankment.
    Stations — Jersey Avenue, Newark Avenue, Journal Squqre, Marion/West Side Avenue,Tonnelle Avenue/US 1&9, SJ
    Takes the line in a five-mile round about route through Journal Square to get there. Since good part of the ROW was sold off if will have to be repurchased at a premium. This route will will compete with PATH service Newport/Journal Square.
    Going to happen?
  2. Extending HBLR Hoboken to Secaucus Transfer by way of the arches.
    Hoboken west (present HBLR) to National Docks, south on Docks ROW to Arches, West to SJ. Stations — Palisade Avenue, Kennedy Boulevard, Tonnelle Avenue, SJ. About four miles. This route competes with NJT present service.
    Going to happen?
  3. Extending HBLR west from Tonnelle Avenue Station
    We would like to hit Harmon Meadow, Mill Creek Mall, Paterson Plank Road, Secaucus and then Meadowland Complex. But this misses SJ.
    Only two miles end to end. No established ROW to use, residential area north of Route 3 that would have to be transversed, a river bridge.
    Going to happen?
1, 2, 3 — I think not. But 3 does seem the most possible. At least extending to the malls and possibly to SJ by going south parallel to the Turnpike.

  by AndyB
Todays' (2/28/2007) Jersey Journal has an article concerning the embankment ROW. Jersey City is waiting for ruleing, did Conrail legally sell property to developer.

Waiting on Embankment Ruleing

  by islandtransit
Perhaps NJT can use the arches as a way to reach Jersey City with it's commuter rail. I know it's a long shot, but I assume there's extra capacity on the branch lines and the only thing holding NJT back from boosting service is the lack of capacity at NYP.
  by Sir Ray
Well, the Jersey Journal has been carrying the negotiations and accusations centering around the former Conrail 6th St. Embankment (aka the Jersey City "Wall"), which may or may not be torn down and redevopment, which may or may not be protected, which may or may not be partial saved, and which may or may not have even been properly abandoned by Conrail (meaning the initial sale to a developer is void).
None the less, recently in the various articles that the Journal has printed, the concept of using this embankment as an extension of the HBLRT has been mooted about more and more, e.g. this article
Healy said he spoke with state Department of Transportation Commissioner Kris Kolluri earlier in the day about the state paying to expand the Hudson Bergen Light Rail to the elevated site.
So, considering the location and length of this embankment, what route could it become a part of? To the Journal Square Trans. Center?
Rampant and idle speculation is encouraged :P
OK, one study (out of probably many to come) - "the study's consultant, Stantec, makes several recommendations... extending the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail System along the Sixth Street Embankment through the Bergen Arches into Secaucus"

Extra fun - in 2005 there was an $1.6million earmark to the DOT SAFETEA bill for a walkway/bikeway...wonder what happened to that funding?
  by Douglas John Bowen
Thanks to Sir Ray for bringing this budding/fledgling proposal to the fore. We've been watching this one, and trying to test/gauge the political waters as we prep for another possible extension of HBLRT.

We can say with some confidence (things do change, to be sure) that Journal Square is not a destination or target of the proposal, as currently envisioned.

  by necrails
I'm curious, why wouldn't Journal Square be a potential destination for HLR? (it will only be HBLR if it ever gets extended) Although PATH provides service to Grove St and Exchange Place, LR can link parts of Jersey City and the rest of Hudson County to the bus center at the Square. Best of all the ROW partially exists and I don't think it is used for freight any more.

I think any project in Hudson county that would offer an alternative to driving would continue to make the communities in the county attractive and fuel development.

  by AndyB
The 6th. St. Embankment is only intact for six city blocks. Marin Blvd. west to Brunswick St. The five bridges over intervening streets were remove years ago for safety, actually rusting apart, and clearence, they were all low. The right of way east of Marin Blvd. to the HBLR, about 3 blocks, has been absorbed into the New Port development area.
The ROW west of Brunswick St. was on a trestle. Much of this property was sold off years ago and I am not sure if this is even part of the City law suit.

That being said, since "Rampant and idle speculation is encouraged"
If HBLR is extended, I would put stations at Jersey Ave., Newark Ave., Journal Square, and Marion in the area of Rt. 1&9 where a 1,500 car park and ride would be built.

That being said, I have proposed in other forums that Port Authority / PATH build a new station in Marion in the area of Rt. 1&9 where a 1,500 car park and ride would be built.