Silver Star Downgrade and Diner Discussion

Looks like a difference in fare buckets to me. Can't tell for sure. Northeast Regional segments might have had different costs.

^ my gut is a mix of:
-[edit] a 6:40a departure from BOS is a prime time "business fare" train that you are using to get to the Star, wheras a 9:40 is all in the midday slump. I bet that cost you all of the savings that you'd see on the Star

- prices for far-future travel are high because they assume you'll pay more for "trip of a lifetime" travel (your plan is more important than their price or their diner so they can jack it up)

- prices may reflect a strategy separate from amenities

- Amtrak may prefer to steer end-to-end traffic to the Meteor if Amtak could make more $ selling the Star as two premium day trains (NEC-Carolinas and again infra-Florida). The Star's high price may be because you need to outbid two other rival day trip roomette customers in order to secure your roomette the whole way.

Saver fares on the NEC

BOS-NYP on #161: $98 for two coach seats, plus
NYP-MIA on #97: $604 for roomette

BOS-WAS on #195: $158 for two coach seats, plus
WAS-MIA on #91: $508 for roomette

Looking at the rates right now, I have BOS-195-WAS-91-MIA being $516 and BOS-161-NYP-97-MIA being $604.

Looking at March 2016, we see that Year to Date, the Star's coach revenue and Sleeper revenue are both down, and overall the train's revenue is down $2.9m, while costs are down $8.9m and overall the train is performing $6m to $7.8m better (versus the Meteor's costs being better by only $1.2m and it being only $2.8m better overall, probably mostly fuel). This pegs the YTD net improvement from removing the diner at $5m ($6m costs win, $1m revenue loss in Sleeper class) (an average win of $800k/mo for 6 months)

Star's sleeper ridership is up 8.8% (about 1,300 passenger), while, on lower fares, revenue is down $740k (from $4.3m to $3.5m)
Star's coach ridership is down 10% (about 19,000 passengers), while on higher ares, revenue is down $2.0m (from $12m ish to 10m ish)

EVEN IF you could blame 100% of the revenue declines on the diner (please don't, its impossible to say that the 18,000 coach passengers lost ever touched the diner in any way given its limited throughput. My guess is that they're Florida and Carolina day trippers who are driving now that gas prices are low), the Star is literally millions of dollars better off (and +9% more sleeper-class customers) without its diner.

Looks to me like something that will be made permanent.

Just returned from a Florida trip. Contrary to a previous post, the all 3 sleeping cars on 97 and 98 were pretty full. The dining car was well patronized including quite a few coach passengers. I spoke to people who are close to this on a daily basis, and a lot of passengers were getting on and off at Orlando to catch the buses to Tampa. Although they detested the bus ride, it was better than taking the Star. They are coming out with new hot food items for the Star's food service car. I guess the original AmDonald's food wasn't cutting it. Pretty soon they'll be serving dining car fare in the AmDinette just like the Cardinal. At that point, all they will have done is eliminated lounge space and serve food in a car less suited for it.

People forget that the diner isn't only about eating. I've meet many nice people there and have had many long and interesting conversations, as have others. It is part of the rail travel experience. If you want bare bones service, take a plane.

I think Amtrak could save money by not paying people to scan these forums trying to make silk purses out of sow's ears.

Arlington wrote:Looking at March 2016, Year to Date, the Star's ... revenue is down $2.9m, while costs are down $8.9m. Overall the train is performing $6m to $7.8m better (versus the Meteor's costs being better by only $1.2m and it being only $2.8m better overall, probably mostly fuel). This pegs the YTD net improvement from removing the diner at $5m ($6m costs win, $1m revenue loss in Sleeper class) (an average win of $800k/mo for 6 months)

Star's sleeper ridership is up 8.8% (about 1,300 passengers), while, on lower fares, revenue is down $740k (from $4.3m to $3.5m). Coach ridership is down 10% (about 19,000 passengers), while on higher fares, revenue is down $2.0m (from $12m ish to 10m ish)

... the Star is literally millions of dollars better off (and +9% more sleeper-class customers) without its diner.

Comparable, if somewhat more conservative, numbers from page 12 of Amtrak Ink:

April/May 2016
Amtrak Ink

... the Long-Distance business line (LDBL) ... is engaged in new and experimental initiatives that are changing the way that Amtrak does business.

“The team’s ability to embrace change and innovate while reducing costs and serving our customers is remarkable,” said Senior Vice President and General Manager of Long-Distance Mark Murphy.

From June 2015 to January 2016, Amtrak tested whether there was a market for lower-cost sleeper accommodations that did not include a full diner service offering. The experiment proved so successful that the continuation of this pilot program is projected to add about $4 million to Amtrak’s financial bottom line.

The Silver Service was an ideal testing ground as the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star share 70 percent of markets served, and had near-identical consists and inventory. For the test, the Meteor retained its dining car while the Star did not; instead food service was provided through a less formal café car.

As a result, the Silver Service sleeper ridership rose 4 percent while ridership elsewhere was either flat or declining. The average fare difference between the trains was under $200. Passengers taking more than 1,000-mile trips in sleeper class generally chose the Silver Meteor, which continued to offer full dining car service. However, those traveling shorter distances chose the Silver Star, resulting in its sleeper ridership rising 21 percent. This means the Star not only garnered new customers, but also coach passengers upgraded to sleepers.
...
Though the dining car will not be returning to the Silver Star, Murphy said, it does not signal the end of the dining car service. ... “We are just trying to meet changing realities of the market with a new, lower-cost offering ...

https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/726/675/Am ... y-2016.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the next question is: what's the role of "airline meals": upgrading the Cafe food or removing labor & spoilage costs from the diner?

Well, they're already upgrading the Café menu, so the original offerings must not have been cutting it. Funny, no mention of spoilage costs from the Café.

The Star's Cafe has been"sold out" at times,so there's little to no spoilage,and a NEED for a mid trip resupply at a
service stop. There seems to be "takers" of "what's left" in the fridge and freezer......

Wow . . . sounds like this cafe thing is really popular. Maybe after seeing the demand for the food service, Amtrak will consider putting a diner on this train

People are eventually going to have to eat. The question is would you rather have the $7.25 Angus Cheeseburger out of the microwave or the $12.50 Angus Steak burger cooked.

I wonder how much of a typical LD car's diner revenue is from coach passengers. I'm guessing the cafe car is much more popular for coach passengers.

The question is not just which will people buy, the question is also which can Amtrak economically sell.

I think its interesting that this situation is pointing Amtrak towards a "middle ground" of far better cafe car offerings. This is the same answer they got in their stations. No need for a five star restaurant, but junk fast food wasn't the answer either.

Although they detested the bus ride, it was better than taking the Star

A couple days before Christmas, I took the train to visit relatives in Lakeland. I had them pick me up in Orlando because no sleepers were available on the Star. The Meteor was the only available option when I booked a couple months before.