SEPTA Oddities Quiz

I'm going to throw out a couple of things for you guys to talk about and add some tidbits of knowledge about these things in the future.

Here they are:

1]5th and Vine Trolley Station - what route used this station?

2]Old City Hall Tunnels - What used to run in them?

3] Spring Garden, Tioga and Nicetown RR Stations - What happened to them?

4] Can anyone name the ORIGINAL Subway-Surface Routes?

2. Old City Hall Tunnels - What used to run in them?

Mayors, when the police did the occasional crackdowns on corruption

3. Spring Garden, Tioga and Nicetown RR Stations - What happened to them?

SEPTA.

Spring Garden was eliminated in 1994 with the CCCT.

On the old city hall tunnels, do you mean prior to the BSS construction?

Clearfield wrote:Spring Garden was eliminated in 1994 with the CCCT.

I had the privilege of being the last passenger at Spring Garden. Caught the last train in to Reading Terminal the night they closed it, on the way to riding the NRHS "last train" charter.

Ok Lemme see if I can answer a few of these:

Mdlbigcat wrote:1]5th and Vine Trolley Station - what route used this station?

That would be the old Route 50 Trolley that ran from Lawndale toSouth Philly. It was converted in '83 (?) to bus and then was fully abandoned and split up into the bus routes 18 (which serves the end between Knorr St and Olney Av via Rising Sun Av). The other half of the line is served by the 57 running from Olney & Rising Sun to Whitman Plaza.

3] Spring Garden, Tioga and Nicetown RR Stations - What happened to them?

All abandoned. Spring Garden fell victim to Market East and the CCCT. Nicetown and Tioga were abandoned due to low ridership.

4] Can anyone name the ORIGINAL Subway-Surface Routes?

Why certainly. 10, 11, 31, 34, 37 and 38.

Clearfield wrote:Spring Garden was eliminated in 1994 with the CCCT...

Um you mean 1984.

SEPTALRV9072 wrote:Um you mean 1984.

Yeah. I was on the same train with Matt, the NRHS 'Last Train from Reading Terminal'

Nicetown and Tioga bit the dust about 1989. There were census years with zero boards at those stations.

Spring Garden never did more than 5. Logan was in the teens, falling to single digits. Tabor was better, though never cracked 100 in the period since 1978. Fern Rock did well even before the new station.

And might we say the original subway-surface routes were in Boston??

Mdlbigcat wrote:I'm going to throw out a couple of things for you guys to talk about and add some tidbits of knowledge about these things in the future.

Here they are:

1]5th and Vine Trolley Station - what route used this station?

2]Old City Hall Tunnels - What used to run in them?

3] Spring Garden, Tioga and Nicetown RR Stations - What happened to them?

4] Can anyone name the ORIGINAL Subway-Surface Routes?

Here are the answers and a short explaination:

1] Route 50 used this station which was built when the 5th st tunnel under the BFB plaza was built. The station was closed and the entrance sealed up in the late 70's due to crime concerns. I do not know if the station was sealed up or if it is still intact.

2]Prior to 1939, the MFSE went AROUND City Hall. The Eastbound tracks was on S. Penn Sq, and the Westbound tracks went under Filbert/Penn. Blvd/JFK Blvd [Between 13th and 15th]. The remnants still exist on the S. Penn Sq side, when you ride the eastbound SS lines as it's going around City Hall. The car runs in the trackway originally used by the El trains, then switches into the original SS trackway. The trackways under JFK Blvd were obliterated in the Dilworth Plaza construction and relocation of the westbound SS tracks. In 1939, a new direct tunnel under City Hall was built over the Broad St tracks, and squeezed between City Hall's foundations.

3]Spring Garden was closed when the Reading tracks was relocated to the new ROW into the tunnel in 1984. Nicetown and Tioga were closed by SEPTA in the late 80's due to low ridership. The stations were destroyed during Railworks, although parts of Tioga station pathways still exists.

4] The original SS routes were 10, 11, 31, 34, 37, 38. Route 31 tended to go in and out of the subway due to the whims of PRT management. Some years the line used the subway, other times it stayed a surface line.
The SS lines started with Pay-Within cars, then became the domain of the Peter Witts, then in '55 the PCC's took over until the Kawasaki cars arrived in '81. PTC bustituted the 38 about a year later [1956], then later completely changed this route around when it combined the 38 with the XB bus [Center City to West Park], To take up the slack of the old 38 route, the 31 bus was rerouted into Powelton Village.

Actually identification of the original subway surface routes pre-dates the assignment of route numbers to Philadelphia streetcar lines ( which first occurred with the introduction of the Nearside Cars in 1911) I don't remember all of the pre-Nearside identifications, but- what is now Route 34 was simply the Angora Line, Route 11, was simply the Darby Line, and Route 37 was the Chester Short Line. Prior to the opening of the subway, those routes had run on the surface on Market Street terminating at the "Market Street Ferries". There was an interesting loop at Front and Market where the cars actually looped in Market Street ( not on off-street property).

The current subway-surface line up dates from the opening in the mid-1950's of the subway extension ( to 40th & Woodland) and the wholesale bustitution by NCL of the great majority of Philadelphia streetcar lines. Routes 37 and 38 were bustituted, with 37 undergoing a major re-routing, as well as being restored to its Chester terminus. Route 13 was diverted from Chestnut and Walnut Streets into the subway concurrent with the Bustitution of Route 42 which had shared Chestnut and Walnut Streets
with the 13, and then had run out Spruce to 61st & Pine, and Route 36 replaced Route 37 in the subway and on Island Road, but retained its Elmwood Ave. routing in West Phila. ( Route 37 had shared Woodland Ave. with Route 11, then turned south on Island Road). Also, at that time, the subway surface routes all received PCC cars ( Routes 10 and 38 had had them as did Route 13). The 8000's, which had previously provided the bulk of service on most of the subway-surface lines, were scrapped.

What in http://www75.homepage.villanova.edu/hen ... sy-BSL.JPG is still in use, and what has been abandoned but still exists?
And what was never built? (I'm assuming the "PRR subway" is in this category)