When will if at all Septa get new euipment? Look at NJT they are getting new equipment all the time!! Septa should atleast get some new electic cars!! Or ALP-44's!!
Railroad Forums
Septa- new trains?
- Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Moderator: AlexC
As for new equipment...
The Silverliner V bid process was derailed last year. The original builder contract for the new m.u.'s was awarded to the lowest bidder, a Korean firm. Competitor Kawasaki objected and took legal action, so Septa dropped the Korean proposal and agreed to start the entire bid process from scratch. So don't hold your breath for seeing those Silverliner V units any time soon.
As for ALP-44's and the like, Septa really doesn't like to run push-pull; I believe because m.u.'s are better suited to the stop-n-go of Septa's tightly spaced station stops. So don't expect any more electric locomotives either.
Just think of every ride on Septa Regional Rail as a fan trip on vintage equipment.
-Urban
The Silverliner V bid process was derailed last year. The original builder contract for the new m.u.'s was awarded to the lowest bidder, a Korean firm. Competitor Kawasaki objected and took legal action, so Septa dropped the Korean proposal and agreed to start the entire bid process from scratch. So don't hold your breath for seeing those Silverliner V units any time soon.
As for ALP-44's and the like, Septa really doesn't like to run push-pull; I believe because m.u.'s are better suited to the stop-n-go of Septa's tightly spaced station stops. So don't expect any more electric locomotives either.
Just think of every ride on Septa Regional Rail as a fan trip on vintage equipment.
-Urban
Any new equipment that Septa does get will most likely last a lot longer running only 5 days a week! 
I hate to be a pessimist but this budget crisis isn't going away anytime soon. I know the capital and operating budgets are separate entities but daily operations and the overall health of the agency need to be ensured first. Right now the patient is on life support.
I hate to be a pessimist but this budget crisis isn't going away anytime soon. I know the capital and operating budgets are separate entities but daily operations and the overall health of the agency need to be ensured first. Right now the patient is on life support.
Glenn
Just think of every ride on Septa Regional Rail as a fan trip on vintage equipment.The problem is, I actually do think of a ride on Septa Regional Rail as a fan trip with vintage equipment. The novelty will wear off eventually. But for most riders there is no novelty.
I will say one thing about the old Silverliner I and IIs, they have bigger windows than the Silverliner IVs, people seem to like that better.
Comparing NJT to SEPTA is a rather poor assessment. SEPTA has been the victim of chronic underfunding, inept management, and perhaps as a result indifference from it's ridership. We'll see how NJT survives the Warrington administration, but they're currently in an extremely good place as compared to SEPTA. It's really too bad because if you read back issues of Railway Age from March 1975 or so it sounds like SEPTA's management was truely progressive in their thinking about the system and it's operation. They had the plans for the CCT, the R1 Airport Line, the Silverliner IVs, and other projects, and amazingly those three actually went through. Since then it seems virtually nothing has happened. FTC got rebuilt, and a few bus depots have been modified, added or destroyed, but that's about it. SEPTA has rested on it's paltry laurels while NJT has expanded and interconnected their system. The recent equipment purchases by NJT only show the furthering of a funding and service gap which SEPTA is falling into.
The afformentioned Silverliner V bid process is of course ongoing, and sounds promising if SEPTA can get the manufacturers to behave and deliver a car that'll meet the requirements and also be reliable. SEPTA recently got new cars for the MFL and Rt100, as well as the still pristine PCC IIs. They also have the 6 AEM7s and 1 ALP44, as well as some fairly new Shoreliner II push pull cars which came piggybacked off Metro North's order. All of these cars are somewhere under 10 years old.
As for SEPTA getting ALP44s, I'd forget it, the ALP44 is gone with ABB. Perhaps if ABB decided to get back into the transport market (now possible due to ADTranz bungling the buyout by Bombardier) something might come out of the Swedes that'd roughly resemble an RC7 or ALP44. There were rumors about a new Swedish electric locomotive that was supposed to come from ABB a year or so ago, but I haven't seen anything else. If SEPTA was to get more electric push-pulls (big if), we'd likely see ALP46s and Comet Vs, since that's what's out on the market. Perhaps the construction of the SVM could engender two more push pull sets for rush hour express trains with the first stop at Norristown, a return of the Schuylkill Valley Flyer. :).
If the Comet Vs and Acela cars are any indication, it'd appear that the Silverliner Vs may see a return to larger windows. AFAIK the smaller windows were adopted on the SIVs after several SIs, IIs and IIIs had their windows blown out or damaged by passing 125mph trains on the NEC. It was simpler at the time to make the window smaller rather than try to thicken it or make the lexan stronger. It'd appear that materials science has caught up with the Metroliners and now you can have an economical piece of lexan that will withstand the bow wave coming off an AEM7 blasting past a stationary commuter train.
As far as the buses go, at least SEPTA has lost almost all their carcinogen spewing two stroke diesel buses from their fleet. A few more years and the EPA woulda started charging us for them, and then we'd REALLY wish we'd spent money on the bus fleet. Also I believe buses are generally funded at an 80/20 federal state-local level, while railcars are far more variable. From SEPTA's NTD profile, it appears the feds put up 51% of SEPTA's 2002 capitol budget, while the state ponied up 39%, and local governments added 11%. Of course that's for all capitol projects, be it FTC, the Rt15, the rail replacement on the Subway Surface, or the bus purchases. I'd almost be willing to bet that for most rail oriented projects the federal portion never rose above 50%, probably staying below 40%, but the bus purchases with 60-80% funding raised that to 51% federal money.
Anyway, now that the bus fleet is good for at least 5 years (the earliest time we may want to think about killing the NABIs), it's time to start shaking the funding trees in Washington to get the rail funded. It's too bad that the current administration is in the pocket of the highway lobby and is pushing BRT or Light Rail as the end-all-be-all of transit planning. SEPTA needs to extend their electrified rail network, and they're going to need federal funding to electrify the Newtown Line, get SVM done at least to Pottstown (without the Metrorail crap), and to replace the Silverliner IIs and IIIs while expanding the fleet slightly. At least the Rt100 to KOP possibly COULD be done in-state if our reps in Harrisburg could shake loose 250 million dollars and then sneak it out under the republican's noses.
The afformentioned Silverliner V bid process is of course ongoing, and sounds promising if SEPTA can get the manufacturers to behave and deliver a car that'll meet the requirements and also be reliable. SEPTA recently got new cars for the MFL and Rt100, as well as the still pristine PCC IIs. They also have the 6 AEM7s and 1 ALP44, as well as some fairly new Shoreliner II push pull cars which came piggybacked off Metro North's order. All of these cars are somewhere under 10 years old.
As for SEPTA getting ALP44s, I'd forget it, the ALP44 is gone with ABB. Perhaps if ABB decided to get back into the transport market (now possible due to ADTranz bungling the buyout by Bombardier) something might come out of the Swedes that'd roughly resemble an RC7 or ALP44. There were rumors about a new Swedish electric locomotive that was supposed to come from ABB a year or so ago, but I haven't seen anything else. If SEPTA was to get more electric push-pulls (big if), we'd likely see ALP46s and Comet Vs, since that's what's out on the market. Perhaps the construction of the SVM could engender two more push pull sets for rush hour express trains with the first stop at Norristown, a return of the Schuylkill Valley Flyer. :).
If the Comet Vs and Acela cars are any indication, it'd appear that the Silverliner Vs may see a return to larger windows. AFAIK the smaller windows were adopted on the SIVs after several SIs, IIs and IIIs had their windows blown out or damaged by passing 125mph trains on the NEC. It was simpler at the time to make the window smaller rather than try to thicken it or make the lexan stronger. It'd appear that materials science has caught up with the Metroliners and now you can have an economical piece of lexan that will withstand the bow wave coming off an AEM7 blasting past a stationary commuter train.
As far as the buses go, at least SEPTA has lost almost all their carcinogen spewing two stroke diesel buses from their fleet. A few more years and the EPA woulda started charging us for them, and then we'd REALLY wish we'd spent money on the bus fleet. Also I believe buses are generally funded at an 80/20 federal state-local level, while railcars are far more variable. From SEPTA's NTD profile, it appears the feds put up 51% of SEPTA's 2002 capitol budget, while the state ponied up 39%, and local governments added 11%. Of course that's for all capitol projects, be it FTC, the Rt15, the rail replacement on the Subway Surface, or the bus purchases. I'd almost be willing to bet that for most rail oriented projects the federal portion never rose above 50%, probably staying below 40%, but the bus purchases with 60-80% funding raised that to 51% federal money.
Anyway, now that the bus fleet is good for at least 5 years (the earliest time we may want to think about killing the NABIs), it's time to start shaking the funding trees in Washington to get the rail funded. It's too bad that the current administration is in the pocket of the highway lobby and is pushing BRT or Light Rail as the end-all-be-all of transit planning. SEPTA needs to extend their electrified rail network, and they're going to need federal funding to electrify the Newtown Line, get SVM done at least to Pottstown (without the Metrorail crap), and to replace the Silverliner IIs and IIIs while expanding the fleet slightly. At least the Rt100 to KOP possibly COULD be done in-state if our reps in Harrisburg could shake loose 250 million dollars and then sneak it out under the republican's noses.