SEPTA: Fix It, Fund It, Nuke It, Start Over?

Matthew Mitchell wrote:Pennsylvania is larger and has more diverse transit needs than any of the states with statewide transit operations (RI, NJ, DE, MD--I don't think there are any others*). New Jersey is a little larger than the rest, but they're all otherwise pretty similar. None of them have the amount of rural territory Pennsylvania does.

Maryland is probably more similar to Connecticut in that the state operates the bus system in it's major hub (Baltimore) and other smaller systems operate statewide (Montgomery County, Howard County, Ocean City, Annapolis, etc) are independent to a point from the state. Plus, parts of Maryland fall under WMATA jurisdiction as well.

Connecticut does purchase buses for some of the non state-operated systems (Bridgeport, New London for example) but the administration of the local systems in Ct. is somewhat independent from Hartford.

PARailWiz wrote:How come we have so many separate transit systems in Pennsylvania? New Jersey transit runs pretty much throughout the state. Perhaps if Pennsylvania's transit was all consolidated under one name with a rail and a bus division, we wouldn't have so much trouble getting representatives from other parts of the state to agree to fund it, and glaring management problems would be harder for the legislature to ignore.

Because (a) I doubt very highly that the folks in Erie or Scranton would take to kindly to Harrisburg taking full control over their systems (though I think at some point in the future, the state should consider consolidating the Lackawanna and Luzerne County bus systems into a small RTA), much less the folks in Philly and Pittsburgh and (b) Pennsylvania is way too big and way to rural in the central part of the state to handle a statewide transit authority.

I think it would be foolish for the state to walk in and take everything over. The last thing we need is another layer of beaurocracy in this mess.

Instead what should happen is:

Remove the capital development, improvement and planning operations from SEPTA completely.

Remove the service planning functions from SEPTA.

Put the state in charge of development. The state would be responsible for the planning, funding and prioritization of new starts and system improvements. The money comes from the state, they should have 1st call on how it is spent. SEPTA has also demonstrated incompetence in what services are planned and how they are enacted. The last new rail line we have added is the airport train. Disaster routes might be the 111 which runs along route 1 in Delaware/Chester County. This route travels along the heaviliest used portions of US1 near the I-476 interchange.

Let the counties decide on what levels of service are needed. SEPTA should be treated as a contractor to run the services. For example, the city could dictate what areas need what levels of bus service, and if the quality of service falls below a certain level, the city could revoke the contract and have another operator run the route.

Subcontract out regional rail operations to another company, such as NS or CSX. Basically all they would be providing is the labor to operate the trains. For that matter, include the MOW functions. Amtrak has plenty of idle equipment, pay them to do the work.

On lines such as the MFL/BSS, let another company run the ticket booths. Why are we paying $40,000 to union guys to sit on their duffs and do nothing? No passes, no tokens, no change....so what do they do? Might as well have a $8/hr kid in their to dole out transfers as needed.

SEPTA doesen't deserve a nickel of dedicated funding until they demonstrate that they can be responsible in spending it, and it isnt likely that they are going to start any time soon.

You're proposal is actually very similar to the way PennDot works. The 11 regional districts direct what goes on and when, but the daily maintenance work is done by the counties (roughly equivalent to Septa's role in your plan), and major projects like bridge rebuildings are contracted out (the role of NS or CSX in your plan). And they all answer to the Secretary of Transportation in Harrisburg. I think that would work very well here. I wasn't necessarily advocating a complete state takeover, but at least a state overseer role, especially for the rail routes, which you described nicely. Since the state already runs the show with roads in the state, why shouldn't it also run the show with transit?

Even the newspaper of my former hometown has an article on state funding of transit agencies:

http://www.observer-reporter.com/299370143763427.bsp

Here's the text, since the O-R seems to expire articles rather quickly:

Transit agencies clamoring for aid in wake of deficits

Associated Press

PITTSBURGH – From the state's two largest cities to dozens of smaller and rural communities, public transportation agencies are clamoring for dedicated state funding in the wake of massive deficits.

Unless funding is secured soon, transit agencies say drastic service cuts, layoffs and fare increases will be needed.

The two largest agencies – the Port Authority of Allegheny County and Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority – said they are facing their most serious crises to date.

The Port Authority is facing a deficit of more than $30 million in its $282 million budget, said spokesman Bob Grove.

If a solution isn't found, the agency will have to raise fares from $1.75 to $2.50, cut weekday service after 9 p.m., stop weekend service, eliminate 70 of its 210 routes and lay off 500 of its 3,100 employees, Grove said. The authority offers about 240,000 daily rides.

"I know that the thinking is that it's just Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, but that's not really true," Grove said.

For instance, fuel costs are increasing for all agencies, no matter their size. In July, the Port Authority paid 87 cents for a gallon of diesel fuel; now it's paying $1.61, Grove said. "Every penny the price goes up means $100,000 to the budget," he said.

SEPTA, which offers about 1 million rides a day in Philadelphia, Bucks, Chester, Delaware and Montgomery counties, is facing a deficit of $63 million.

It's preparing to eliminate weekend service and weekday service after 8 p.m., increase base fares from $2 to $2.50 and lay off 1,400 of its 9,000 employees.

"It'd be the beginning of the dismantling of public transportation in Philadelphia. It would be devastating," said Richard Maloney, a SEPTA spokesman. "The region not having any public transportation on the weekends would be really horrific on the retail industry, shopping malls, hotels, the tourist industry, the medical industry."

Aaron Firestone, a policy analyst at the Clean Air Council and a rider advocate, agreed.

"There are serious concerns if those cuts go through. It's going to paralyze the city of Philadelphia," he said.

The poor and workers without their own transportation would be most affected, said Firestone and Stephen Donahue of Save Our Transit, an independent group of public transportation riders in Allegheny County.

"They are really in the line of fire. It will be a disaster for lost of folks," Donahue said.

But transit agencies, the governor's office and advocates are hoping for a solution before the Legislature breaks.

"We're optimistic that something will happen before the end of the session, so we've got a few more weeks to go," Grove said.

"The governor is very committed and has always been – even from his days as (Philadelphia's) mayor – to public transportation," said Penny Lee, a Rendell spokeswoman. "We are working with the Legislature now to try to find a solution."

Lawmakers "know the public wants a fix and it's very clear that a Band-Aid is unacceptable," Donahue said. The group participated in a rally at the Capitol on Wednesday.

Among ideas being discussed are increasing the gasoline tax or lifting a cap that now limits the amount of state sales tax revenue that can be spent on mass transit.

Sen. Roger A. Madigan, a Bradford County Republican who chairs the Senate Transportation Committee, did not immediately return a message seeking comment Thursday, a state holiday.

Despite criticisms, Grove and Maloney said their agencies are running lean. An independent audit ordered by Rendell of the two agencies backs that up and found the agencies suffer from chronic underfunding, Grove said.

"We've documented $145 million in savings over the past seven years," he said.

I like the idea mentioned above, of having the transit agencies oversee/plan the service, and then having "real" companies actually run the service. I'd bet that an NS or CSX could run a better railroad for the money than SEPTA can.

Would they want it, though?

The 'i don't care' problem exsits from management all the way down to many of the individual operators and agents. I sometimes wonder what the hiring process is like at 1234, and why it is so difficult to get a job at SEPTA but apparently impossible to get fired. Of course that's going to result in an ineffective system! We tell our good applicants that there are no jobs, turning away much potential talent. The existing "talent" has union protections and therefore only has to care about their job if they feel like it, cause there's no risk of firing. Then they bring in people to reward excellent employees, and offer bonuses too, lest they seek promotion in another company.

Case in point. Last week in my train station I couldn't get tokens. I was advised to buy them at the Pathmark three miles away, or "can't you ride a bus with cash? why do you need to buy tokens anyway."

The fact that our station could run out of all denominations of bus tokens, nor have schedules for the four or five area buses, was not a problem to this agent. However, my lack of preparedness was. Great!

Fact of the matter is, public education and public transit agencies hiring practices do not allow for much innovation, but if they can get someobody else's money, they'll be alright.

Hi:
I read a post a while back that booth people are supposed to allow the lower fare if all the token machines are broken. Is this true, and if so does anyone have any information on this? Thanks.
Also, does anyone know why the Septa forum has become really quiet lately? Is this a prelude to the looming budget crisis?

There was a settlement with Community Legal Services about 12 or 13 years ago that said cashiers were to honor the token fare in cash if all machines were broken.

However AFAIK the ruling only applied to stations where there normally are machines, and only within the city limits. Nothing about what happens, for example, in the suburbs if you want to ride a bus and the only place that sells tokens is a Regional Rail station that closes at 1:00 p.m.

The Inquirer reported (a long time ago, admittedly) that some cashiers were refusing to honor the cash-in-lieu ruling, either because they didn't know about it or they purposely chose to ignore it.

Yes, the forum has quieted down a lot lately, but I guess that's to be expected on a death watch

I've seen it in action on the Broad Steet Line at Cecil B. Moore. So it is used at least some places in practice.

Sean@Temple

About the only place that token machines exist are the Center City stations (and major terminals at each end), minus 5th Street because they want the out of towners to pay full fare.

As for the railroads, I think Center City is the only place left that has those dinosaurs. Those things need to be buried at sea.....Why is it that Frito Lay can make vending machines that give you product, accept all forms of currency, and aren't spending more than half of their service life "out of order"

jfrey40535 wrote:As for the railroads, I think Center City is the only place left that has those dinosaurs.

The airport and Trenton as well, IIRC. However, SEPTA does not charge a penalty fare on travel from the airport, owing to the machines' poor performance and the number of visitors using the line.

Those things need to be buried at sea.....

No, they just need to be maintained properly and brought up to current standard w/r/t the bill acceptors (which performed poorly even before the currency redesign, and when they were relatively new)

Why is it that Frito Lay can make vending machines that give you product, accept all forms of currency, and aren't spending more than half of their service life "out of order"

Actually, Frito Lay doesn't make the vending machines, but the answer is the same as the answer why San Francisco Muni can make the same machines work outdoors at Powell and Market: the vagrancy capital of the nation.

JeffK wrote:

Yes, the forum has quieted down a lot lately, but I guess that's to be expected on a death watch

I am dismayed to see that this thread (started ages ago by yours truly) is so far the most popular discussion of the month. I'm not sad that the topic is being discussed - rather, that SEPTA has given us so *MUCH* to discuss here. Truly, that's the reason I seldom post these days...it's all too depressing for me. Reality is catching up with my most dystopic guesses about SEPTA's perennial "crisis mode". Given that, it's difficult for me to continue to kick the agency when it's down.

Why? I've run out of ideas for keeping the Titianic from hitting that fateful iceberg. Nobody at 1234 is really listening. And even though the agency is the author of many of its own woes, my schadenfreude only extends so far. All of us in the Philly region, directly or indirectly, will be paying for it when the ship sinks.

Even though I can very talkative about topics of value, my words begin to fail me when thinking of SEPTA swaying at the edge of this cliff. The agency has devolved into a misplaced chunk of Soviet bureaucracy. They can't cut much deeper without killing the patient...regardless of the $62M disease in question.

No, they just need to be maintained properly and brought up to current standard w/r/t the bill acceptors (which performed poorly even before the currency redesign, and when they were relatively new)

From what I've heard, the machines are non-upgradeable. Anotherwords, they will never be able to accept our current currency (they only take the old-old $20's.) Obviously SEPTA has a quality problem, be it ticket machines, automated announcement systems or the plain old service.

Walking down Market Street, I'm amazed at the number of private bus companies which run services through Center City, be it hte London "Big Bus" company, the fake trollies, or Ride the Ducks(I think there are 3 or 4 companies). SEPTA is missing a huge market here, since the city decided to make its primary industry tourism, SEPTA has decided to make its primary mission asking for handouts. They were actually more intuitive back in the '70's when they still had trollies in Center City, such as the one that looked like a boat that ran down 5th Street. If we had some kind of trolley system for tourists today, I'm sure they could get $5/ride or some kind of day pass for them. Kind of like San Francisco, where their buses are $1 (guessing) and the cable cars are $2.

While our tourists go and Ride the Ducks, SEPTA plays 'Hide the Buck$'.

Even though this is a rail forum, I'm glad this topic is getting this much attention on a broad scale, because we do need a complementary system that works. The trains are no good without the subways and buses (which should be trollies), and the entire system is at risk, nevermind that we've lost so much of it in the past 23 years.

I'd like to encourage everyone to post, and not just read. We need ideas, I think there are some good ones here, and we need a way to make it happen. As I mentioned earlier, the solution is not just giving SEPTA a blank check. The current system is broken and needs to be fixed, and its not as easy as just firing everyone at 1234 and bringing in a new crew. We need oversite and accountability. We need someone other than SEPTA taking control of long term planning, and putting the plan into action.

Sorry for making this so long, but one more point. Since our city made its primary industry tourism, we've also created another problem which ties into our sprawl problem. We probablly have almost as many people commuting out of the city for jobs as we do people coming in, and not just on the railroads. We have tons of people in the service sector going to places like King of Prussia, Oxford Valley, Neshaminy Mall, and other outlying communities for work because of the lack of it here. People are again moving into the city, but they're not doing it for jobs, they're doing it because its a lower cost of living here, and since they're not working here, they're probablly not using SEPTA. So to that extent, SEPTA's problems are not all self-inflicted.

I think a large part of the reason SEPTA's problems are allowed to persist is that the people of the city and the region don't complain about them (in general). It's related to the reason corrupt and shiftless politicians keep getting re-elected. For some reason, the people of this area are content to just sit in traffic and drive from their jobs in sprawling office complexes to their house in their sprawling development, really slowly, breathing polluted air, paying $2 a gallon for gas, rather than demanding a transit system that better meets their needs, and smarter development to ease those needs. So the people in charge feel no need to do anything, as their re-election is not threatened by it.

Until we get to the point that the general population gets tired of the way things are now, nothing will change. There's just no reason for the people in charge to act unless they feel their re-election chances are threatened.

(I apologize for the cynicism in that post).