SEPTA Crisis: Where is Mayor Street?

[This entire post has been deleted due to OVERFLOWING amounts of unacceptable comments and 'opinion.']

Its unfortunate that outside of our state legislators and the Governor, that most of our politicians are disengaged from the problem. I've mentioned this in other threads---we need to do more than just give SEPTA money.

I don't question that they need the money, but how they use what they have and what we will get in turn for added funding is in question. SEPTA demonstrates that they can't do basic things like keep subway cars clean or passengers informed let alone run reliable service. The operators don't care, management doesen't care, and Street doesen't care either.

Street is a whole different story, and I have a feeling the forum moderator isn't going to let us get into a political discussion about him. He stinks, and misses alot of important concepts on urban development, but then again, I think all our politicians miss alot all the way up to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

I thought it would be neat for the city to pull SEPTA's contract on operating the MFL which expires next year and let the city run it. I know, pipe dream.

I think all you need to know about the mayor is that he demoted the transportation office from a cabinet position to a small office in the City Planning Commission.

It would be hard to be less involved and constructive on SEPTA matters as mayor than Ed Rendell and Wilson Goode were, but Street has managed to do it.

The Septa system, no matter how much we may scorn it, is the lifeline to the economy of the city and and the region as a whole. I am especially concerned for those who have no alternative but to rely on Septa to get to their jobs, shopping, worship, etc. Sure, the rest of us can jump in our cars and sit in traffic, but these folks have no choice. Although I have the luxury of being a telecommuter these days, the RRD was a lifesaver (not to mention a moneysaver) when I used to work in Center City everyday. I still use the R1 Airport line regularly and have even converted some of my less transit oriented friends to the train. I also much prefer taking the train over the hassles of driving and parking downtown whenever possible. With the current climate, these options may disappear in the next two months. We all know that once you shut something down, it is twice as difficult to start it up again, but City Hall and Harrisburg seem to have a difficult time grasping that fact.

Looks like Street is finally getting involved.

http://www.kyw1060.com/news_story_detai ... emid=42321

I'd love to see the city split the city transit division away from SEPTA. That might be the best thing that ever happend since PTC.

I'd love to see the city split the city transit division away from SEPTA. That might be the best thing that ever happend since PTC.

It would remove SEPTA from the equation in the city, which is good, but there isn't any evidence the city could do a better job. And how would they fund it? That's still the biggest problem no matter who runs it.

Actually, it's not that bad an idea, and with the other counties taking over their bits as well, and eliminating SEPTA all together. There's more of a chance of useful expansion then, with more attention to local needs. But again, where is the funding going to come from?

The city could just get their share of the funding from the state and Federal gov't.

And while the city is at it, break off the railroads and let someone else run them, whoever it is could in turn get the subsidy from the state.

Time for new ideas, new people new leadership. SEPTA's day is done.

Better yet, let septa keep their current funding, but spin off all the rail operations (Regional Rail, P&W, Subways and Trolleys) too another company with its own funding base (a better funded patco?) Watch as Septa runs the bus system into the ground anyway. Just for fun have septa run a 15 bus against an independent 15 trolley and settle once and for all whether riders prefer trolleys or buses.

tinmad dog wrote:Just for fun have septa run a 15 bus against an independent 15 trolley and settle once and for all whether riders prefer trolleys or buses.

Saw a story a few days ago in (I think) Trains Magazine describing SF Muni's trolley operations. There's one route that's so heavily patronized that buses have been added to take up the slack. The only "problem" is that the trolleys are still overcrowded because passengers won't board the buses; they'll wait for a PCC to come along.

Faye, Pat - take note.

JeffK wrote:Saw a story a few days ago in (I think) Trains Magazine describing SF Muni's trolley operations. There's one route that's so heavily patronized that buses have been added to take up the slack. The only "problem" is that the trolleys are still overcrowded because passengers won't board the buses; they'll wait for a PCC to come along.

I think that's the E-Embarcadero route they're talking about. It carries a lot of tourists who don't want to wait in line for a cable car ride. The route runs along the Embarcadero (waterfront) from Fisherman's Wharf (tourist trap and endpoint of the Powell cable routes) to the Ferry Building. From there passengers can catch a PCC or a historic streetcar back to the cable car turntable at Powell and Market, or ride the California Street cable car, which is a lot less crowded than the Powell routes.

And BTW, those PCCs are ex-SEPTA, painted up in colors of various US operators.

jfrey40535 wrote:
I'd love to see the city split the city transit division away from SEPTA. That might be the best thing that ever happend since PTC.

This would simply be a 2004 version of many proposals that were made in the 1950's for the city to take over and operate the PTC. The Phila area is not alone in this funding situation though, WMATA is having the same kinds of problems with funding in the National Capital Area, though it hasn't yet threatened to suspend weekend service.

walt wrote:

jfrey40535 wrote:
I'd love to see the city split the city transit division away from SEPTA. That might be the best thing that ever happend since PTC.

This would simply be a 2004 version of many proposals that were made in the 1950's for the city to take over and operate the PTC. The Phila area is not alone in this funding situation though, WMATA is having the same kinds of problems with funding in the National Capital Area, though it hasn't yet threatened to suspend weekend service.

Budget crisises for transit systems seem to be quite the norm these days. I read on another website that the CTA (Chicago) had cancelled its' annual Santa Trains due to impending layoffs, and not wanting to portray a mixed message to the public. Amazingly, the CTA's budget deficit is also in the $60M range. I've also seen reports of budget and funding woes at MTA and NYCTA in New York so we are far from alone in this problem.

The NFTA in Buffalo has had serious problems, and PAT is having severe budget problems as well. Unfortunately, the population density and size of the metro area is far greater in Philly which compounds the problems here.

glennk419 wrote:I read on another website that the CTA (Chicago) had cancelled its annual Santa Trains due to impending layoffs, and not wanting to portray a mixed message to the public. Amazingly, the CTA's budget deficit is also in the $60M range.

The situation there is that the CTA wants to reopen the RTA funding formula, and take some of the money that presently goes to Metra (commuter rail) and PACE (suburban bus). As with SEPTA, there is some questioning of the credibility of CTA leadership.

I've also seen reports of budget and funding woes at MTA and NYCTA in New York so we are far from alone in this problem.

The MTA's problems are genuine, and much more severe than SEPTA's, in the long run. However, the cause is quite different: the state has been starving the MTA for capital, but the MTA did not want to go back to deferring necessary maintenance and replacement of equipment like aging MU cars. So the MTA issued bonds to pay for the capital plan, and the debt service has to be paid out of the operating budget. So now the operating budget is way out of whack.

From an operational standpoint, do other cities do better where commuter rail is separated from the transit divisions?

Anotherwords, do the trains, buses and subways operate effectively, such as meeting at main transfer points, etc. things along those lines?