Rutland question - Alburgh, VT

I note on an old topo that I saw there was a wye just north (west) of Alburgh, VT with a line extending due north marked as Rutland. It appears from various other mapping it went to near Noyan, QC and connected with CV?

Was this actually a Rutland line at one time ?

What was the deal with the joint causeway to Rouses Point ? What happened to the CV interest / rights ?

At one time the Rutland had a breanch to Noyan, Que. I don't have the date it was abandoned but I do have employee timetables showing the line in operation way back when. The C.V. had a branch from East Alburg to Rouses Point and they owned the trestle between Alburg and Rouses Point although I believe the Rutland dispatched it. Both railroads had a separat track over this single track bridge through a gauntlet (the rails of one overlaped the other). The C.V. stopped using this bridge not too long after the Rutland strike began because the bridge needed much work and the cost of a bridgetender, instead they ran north to Cantic, Que. and then backtracked via the C.N. Rouses Point Sub to Rouses Point. I walked this bridge before the track was torn up all the way from the Vermont end out to the tender's shanty and indeed the ties and timbers did not look all that great at that time. Sadly, I never rode a train over it, the last regular Rutland passenger train rain in the spring of 1953.
Noel Weaver

The high waters of spring two years ago were not kind to the causeway. The western end was being used by the marina to get to a gazebo a ways out on the causeway. That's about 50% gone now, with the gazebo unreachable by land. Too big an image to upload to railroad.net, but you can load it off the Rutland Trail site:
http://rutlandtrail.org/champlain-causeway.jpg

>>At one time the Rutland had a breanch to Noyan, Que. I don't have the date it was abandoned ...

Not the main point of the posting, but just fyi: from Lindsell's book, the border to Noyan Junction PQ was abandoned in 1934. The section from the border to Alburgh VT was abandoned circa 1941.The CV line from Rouses Point to East Alburgh was abandoned 1942.

PBM

ferroequinarchaeologist wrote:>>At one time the Rutland had a breanch to Noyan, Que. I don't have the date it was abandoned ...

Not the main point of the posting, but just fyi: from Lindsell's book, the border to Noyan Junction PQ was abandoned in 1934. The section from the border to Alburgh VT was abandoned circa 1941.The CV line from Rouses Point to East Alburgh was abandoned 1942.

Maybe you can answer a question for me. Let me set it up first. It seems clear that the CV line must have been on the north side of the gauntlet track on the west end. The Rutland goes straight to the west and the CV takes off to the north. But on the eastern end, where did the gauntlet start? Was the line between Alburg and the eastern end of the causeway double-tracked, switching to gauntlet over the causeway? Presumably there was a switch or a diamond for the Rutland to connect to the Noyan branch.

But here's my question: The 1970's era USGS topo map shows a line diverging northwards on the west side of Alburg. What was that?? The CV? But it doesn't join up with the eastern end of the causeway. Were there ever two causeways?? Is the USGS map confused? The aerial photograph clearly shows a right-of-way there, of some sort.

If it is of any help, here are some links to a 1907, 1943, and 1956 USGS map sets:

http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/RousesPoint.htm

http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/nhtopos.htm

ferroequinarchaeologist wrote:>>At one time the Rutland had a breanch to Noyan, Que. I don't have the date it was abandoned ...

The CV line from Rouses Point to East Alburgh was abandoned 1942.

PBM

Not so, the CV to Rouses Point lasted at least until the final Rutland strike. How long in to that strike period before the CV shut down the line across the trestle and rerouted the Rouses Point job via Cantic I am not sure. I will try to dig out my collection of CV employee timetables which is pretty complete through that period but I don't know just when I will have time to do this. I remember being in Stowe, Vermont for a week around 1964 or maybe after and getting slide photos of a CV work train moving a gondola of scrap rail from the Rutland which was being torn up at that time. The track although officially abandoned was left in place for a period between Alburgh and East Alburgh in order to move out scrap rail from the Rutland job and after the Rutland was finally completely torn up they turned to the CV between Alburgh and East Alburgh and tore that up as well. Again the slide is not handy but I would bet that I put the date of the photo on that slide. I remember the day very well as it was a crystal clear and very cold day and I took the day off from skiing to do a little bit of train hunting. I got slides of the daylight train between Montreal and New York in that area the same day, OH what memories.
Noel Weaver

The maps don't show the northern right-of-way. Only the current USGS topographic map. The 1943 marks the CV as running from Alburg to the Causeway right next to the Rutland.

Noel and Russ,

I had a little extra time on my hands. An excerpt from the 1900 - 1902 Report of the Vermont Railroad Commissioners may help clear up some of the questions that have bubbled up in this discussion. The report considers in part the joint petition of the Central Vermont and Rutland-Canadian Railroads to cross each other at grade at the easterly end of the Rouses Point - Alburgh bridge:

"... it is necessary for the branch of the Rutland-Canadian Railroad extending northerly to the Canadian boundary to cross at grade ... the Central Vermont Railway ...

... it is necessary for [the] northwesterly leg of [the] "Y," to cross ... the Central Vermont Railway ... west of Alburgh station.

...the railroad bridge across Lake Champlain, by which the roads of the petitioners reach New York State, is owned in common by said two companies; that the tracks ... are gauntleted and that for the purpose of so using said bridge ... it is necessary for the branch of the Rutland-Canadian Railroad, extending to the New York line, and said Central Vermont Railroad to be brought together at grade, near the easterly end of said bridge and for the two inside rails of the respective railroads to cross at grade by means of a frog. Whereby your petitioners pray ... said grade crossings may be granted ... " etc.

It appears, therefore that (1) the bridge/trestle was co-owned, and (2) the gauntlet track ended close to the Vermont end of the bridge.

Further,
>>It seems clear that the CV line must have been on the north side of the gauntlet track on the west end.
You are correct, according to the photo and caption on page 99 of Shaughnessy's book.

PBM

Is there any reason why the CV/GTR in 1954 decided to abandon the Saint-Armand line to Montreal via Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu verses maintaining the line over the two bridges over Lake Champlain and the Richelieu River?

CPF363 wrote:Is there any reason why the CV/GTR in 1954 decided to abandon the Saint-Armand line to Montreal via Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu verses maintaining the line over the two bridges over Lake Champlain and the Richelieu River?

There were bridges on this line too and the railroad did not really need two different routes in this area.
Noel Weaver

Is there any website or publication which I can read more about this area? I'm in the area visiting and find it very interesting.