Route 23

Does anyone know the current fate of this Route? I know that trolleys run on this line from time to time (not in the near past) and that it is 'suspended.' All infrastructure seems to be in place for re-institution.

Is SEPTA planning on brining this line back to life in the near future?

I wish, as I can walk easily to either the 23 or the R8, and the 23 would be a cheaper ride (and somehow, taking it as a bus seems less appealing...). The 23 makes a lot of sense as a trolley, given the better braking and acceleration that trolleys have (lots of stop and go traffic and traffic lights in Chestnut Hill, Mount Airy, Germantown, and Center City) and would handle the long slow hill that is Germantown Avenue from about Broad to the line's terminus much better than a bus. At this moment, though, SEPTA has no plans to de-bustitute it.

I doubt that SEPTA has the necessary equipment. The 23 is the longest trolley line in the USA. No extra LRV's or PCC's

You've got me curious. How many miles long is the 23 route?

You have to be kidding. SEPTA doesen't have enough LRVs for the line? How many could possibly be needed? And, what are all those LRVs I see sitting in a depot when I take the R1?

Route 23 is 14 miles long, in streetcar days, it took 1 1/2 hours to run the entire route from Germantown Ave & Bethlehem Pike to 10th & Bigler St in South Phila. It appears that rail service will never be returned. The "temporary" nature of the bustitution is because the city opposed the conversion and the only thing that was approved was a "temporary" bustitution. The same is true for Route 56. There are those who feel that the upgrading of Route 15 is SEPTA's attempt to get the city to swallow permanent bustitution of both 23 and 56.

When the first order of post war PCC's was placed into service, they were all placed on Route 23 and I believe that totaled 70 or 80 cars.

I have a hard time believing that the city will swallow such a deal. I mean, the infrastructure is there and really only seems to need moderate maintainance to get it to 'functional condition.'

IF the city was really comitted to cleaner air and an improved level of service for its citizens. couldn't it either float SEPTA a loan for new LRVs or buy them themselves and lease them back to SEPTA?
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The city is facing a 250mm budget crisis.

Lucky if they pick up the trash, and you want new LRV's?

Something I always wondered is whether or not they could run a limited version of the 23. Starting from Germantown Ave & Bethlehem Pike, it would run down Germantown Ave just to the connection with the Broad Street Subway, where it would turn around again. They would drastically reduce the number of cars needed, maintain one of the most critical transit connections, and keep streetcars running on one of the most intersting and exciting commercial corridors around. Maybe some new construction would be needed to let the cars turn around there, but it would certainly be cheaper than buying enough cars (and paying enough drivers) to run the entire length.

Clearfield wrote:Lucky if they pick up the trash, and you want new LRV's?

Then all that extra money on buses was ill-spent, not to mention most likely contributed to the deficit. And is it all the city's money, and not a portion of it out of Harrisburg?

Not to mention that the funds for the new stadium and the one slated for demolition came out of the public trough as well and not from the $5+ beers...so would not priorities be skewed somewhat...?

Sell ALL the buses and replace them with used PCC cars.

Amen to that. I can live with a complete reversal of the ravages of National City Lines...

Sounds good to me!

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Alcoman wrote:Sell ALL the buses and replace them with used PCC cars.

There probably aren't enough PCC cars existing in the world to do this, great as it sounds. In 1965 ( which was AFTER the great NCL bustitution) the PTC had around 450 PCC cars. I doubt that there are 450 PCC cars existing today------ However, its a GREAT thought!

You could reduce the "shortage" of PCC's by renting them from all the trolley museums in the U.S. and Canada. I am sure that the money the museums get will go a long way to preserve their other equipment. It would be better than seeing alot of these famous cars rot away because the museums don't have the money to fix them.