Rotem Cars Discussion (new bi-level cars)

Rotem is rehabbing the Septa Bomber trailers, so imagine getting a newly looking inside of a mechanically tired flat car. This is for the late penalties for their Silverliner V order.

The MBBs have no life left in them, and I much prefer the Rotems to them at this point. Without replacement for the MBBs, the T can't increase capacity on existing trains(which certainly need it), much less expand service. In this case the medicine is bad, but the disease is worse.

SEPTA's motors are in worse shape,it's going to be awhile untill their ACS-64's are built.
As it stands now MBTA needs to pickup the option,the MBB are unrebuildable,as are the BBD Comet clones,
the K cars are being cycled for overhaul,and the crowding issues will make the feds take notice about conditions.

Backshophoss wrote:As it stands now MBTA needs to pickup the option,the MBB are unrebuildable,as are the BBD Comet clones,
the K cars are being cycled for overhaul,and the crowding issues will make the feds take notice about conditions.

So are you also optimistic that Rotem's workers are further up their experience curve and will do better work, and that having learned from the first batch, changes will be made in the way the second batch are produced? I really like the idea of additional capacity, but don't want us to hate ourselves for reaching for the short-term solution that costs us in the long run. I want to believe that these options (pushing it to 75 or more) is a good thing, but worry.

Denver's RTD did not the the same amount of problems SEPTA had with the SL-V's,granted the BBD Comet rehab being done now
as a payoff of penalty $$$$ on the SEPTA order might be considered "make work" ,its keeping that factory active.
You would Think Rotem now understands what is expected and wants to do better,including working with their outside vendors
to have a steady flow of parts for the Assembly Process to run smoothly.

The Rotem/Metrolink partnership is still an unanswered ? untill that Oxnard NTSB report is made public.

They have enough of the Rotems and have had them long enough to tell if they are going to be clunkers. The "T" also now has a Chief Procurement Officer. In an interview he said during the original Rotem project there was a travel expense ban, so nobody from the T visited Rotem in Korea.

Granted this batch of cars was a bit of a bear to deal with,and any lesions learned at "Camp Seaview" shop
will be applied to the option batch.
That should include "overwatch" by MBTA this time around.

There is a fiscal control board, and an adult in the governators' office.

Diverging Route wrote:This comment just showed up on NETransit:

Potential New Order:

As part of a presentation to the MBTA Control Board in June 2016, MBTA staff stated they are exploring exercising the remaining option order with Rotem to procure 60-75 additional coaches.

terrible option

Other options would be a new procurement (years away) or rehabbing someone else's mothball single-levels.

What does the newish Chief Procurement Officer say?

Any federal grants paying for this? Do they get the option price from 5 years or so ago?

A Toyota lasts a lot longer than a Hyundai...

BandA wrote: A Toyota lasts a lot longer than a Hyundai...

Unless the Toyota is 30 years old and the Hyundai is brand new. I can't imagine it's super easy obtaining or fabricating parts for the single level fleet, IIRC that's why the MBBs are being retired.

[OT] MBBs are like Chryslers. Better than Fords but not as good as Toyotas.

Still looking for that Toyota that can withstand the 800,000lb buff strength test ...

My ears are still ringing from the brakes squealing onboard car 804 midday yesterday on the Middleboro Line. It wasn't even that loud at raw decibel level, but...gah!...whatever frequency of sound those brakes were making was acutely and immediately painful to my eardrums. I swear, I didn't even know I was hyper-sensitive at that frequency range until that car started behaving like a medieval torture device. Extremely unpleasant. I grabbed Pullman 254 on the return trip rather than even chance it in 807 or 1801 sandwiching it on either side. It was either that or sprint like hell down the platform before doors closed to board the 900-series K-car on the opposite end. The frame-rattling shudder the brakes made at full-stop was also disconcerting...and completely absent on the Pullman. And I noticed that the end doors kept swinging open on their own from nothing more than the gentle natural rocking of the consist around curves. Never happened once to the K-cars adjacent to 804, or onboard 254.


These things are going to be decaying pieces of crap by Year 5, let alone Year 20 or whenever the first plausible chance there is to get rid of them. I don't possibly see a way where Rotem can do that complete and total a QC reboot getting a second bite at the apple with the option order. The flaws in those things run way too deep and touch too many little fit-and-finish things to simply go away because the incompetent Philly factory went away. Especially when Metrolink and TriRail riders complain about the same rattles, squeals, and poor fit/finish anomalies in their non-Philly manufacture fleets. If we need cars that bad just make MARC an offer they can't refuse for their K-cars to buy and rebuild...hell, buy them more brand-new MLV's if that's what takes to get compatible bi-levels fast. Anything but another batch of the car that damn near made my ears bleed all over the purple livery yesterday.

Coach 254 has been out of service at BET for the past several months awaiting carbody repairs...you sure it wasn't 244?