Regional Rail "R" System

Most of us who use SEPTA's rails take the R-naming system for granted. I've been noticing that when I suggest to people to take the train somewhere, they always get confused over R2, R3, R5 etc....One of my friends got on a R5 Paoli instead of Lansdale.....Anyone have similar experiences?

Anyone think we'd be better off doing away with the R system and just call them as they are "Warminster Branch", or just giving each route its own number?

Getting rid of the current R# system would be a great idea. The numbers are frequently mixed up by the media when reporting on delays etc, and in my limited use of the SEPTA RR system I've seen many people confused about what train to take. I've also received blank stares when I try to explain to people what train to take when I encourage them to take the train instead of driving.

I tend to lean towards the numbering system because then you don't need to worry about explaining the difference between West Trenton and Trenton or the Chesnut Hills. Of course you can't eliminate all confusion but simple numbers and signs would help.

Cheers,

Bob

Glad I'm not the only one that gets the "blank stare" treatment when I try and explain R5 to people. I wonder if we would get a blank stare from SEPTA when explaining to them that their system needs fixing....

One other addition I thought of. All schedules would show trains thru the last core Philly stop (I consider that to be University City thru Temple). I would add a note to the bottom of each individual train's schedule indicating what line the train continued on and the terminal station.

R3 Media/Elwyn outbound would be Temple thru Elwyn and the inbound direction would note after Temple something like R9 to Warminster. There would need to be a good shorthand for this I suppose to fit it into the small space available. R9 WAR perhaps then a key with terminating stations on the schedule.

Cheers,

Bob

Or just "WAR", maybe? If they end the arbitrary pairing of the routes, would a numbering system even be necessary? Did either the PRR or the RDG have numbering systems for their commuter lines?

A co-worker of mine takes the R3 Media/Elwyn to and from work. His first day on the job (he'd just moved here from Phoenix), he got on an R3 West Trenton train to go home. Fortunately, he realized his mistake by the time they got to Temple, so he didn't end up going too far in the wrong direction.

To an old fart like me, the Paoli Local is the Paoli Local. There are also the Wilmington Local, Trenton Local, Pennsy Chestnut Hill Local, Reading Chestnut Hill Local, Norristown Local, etc.

Why not just do a bit of a number swap??

R1 - Airport
R2 - Wilmington/Newark
R3 - Media/Elwyn
R4 - West Trenton
R5 - Thorndale
R6 - Cynwyd
R7 - Trenton
R8 - Chestnut Hill West
R9 - Warminster
R10 - Lansdale/Doylestown
R11 - Norristown
R12 - Chestnut Hill East
R15 - Fox Chase

Even though there's alot more numbers, this would assign each line it's own route, making it easier for people to match lines with stations and terminals.

chuchubob wrote:To an old fart like me, the Paoli Local is the Paoli Local. There are also the Wilmington Local, Trenton Local, Pennsy Chestnut Hill Local, Reading Chestnut Hill Local, Norristown Local, etc.

Don't forget the Media Local ( which I will always call the Media-West Chester Local).

The route numbering system is a great idea although I think SEPTA would rather leave it the way it is because they want to point out that you can ride one train from Fox Chase to Chestnut Hill West for example. If a different number was assigned to each route they would probably say it would make that confusing even though they're aren't a lot of people that actually ride one end to the other. Besides, numbering the routes would make things easier, and I think SEPTA prefers things complicated.

R8FoxChase, a bit o/t but just curious... where along (if at all) Fox Chase Line do you live? I live near Ryers sta.

R8FoxChase wrote:The route numbering system is a great idea although I think SEPTA would rather leave it the way it is because they want to point out that you can ride one train from Fox Chase to Chestnut Hill West for example. If a different number was assigned to each route they would probably say it would make that confusing even though they're aren't a lot of people that actually ride one end to the other. Besides, numbering the routes would make things easier, and I think SEPTA prefers things complicated.

Not necessarily, because if you notice many trains from one branch will end up going through to an entirly differently numbered route on the other side (ex. - R6 Norristown trains go through to Wilmington while R2 Warminster trains go through to the airport). Hell the R6 Cynwyd doesn't go anywhre.

I like that number swap idea. Most people are familiar with commuter rail systems that terminate in the city center, and think of the Regional Rail system that way. Even in Paris, their RER lines are numbered with different numbers for each terminus.

The R6 Cynwyd is a single car train that terminates at a stub-end track in Suburban Station. Most of the R6 Norristown trains terminate at 30th Street Station on weekdays, and on weekends continue to Wilmington.

The R2 Wilmington usually terminates at Temple University on weekdays. The R2 Warminster is usually paired up with the R1 Airport. The R3 West Trenton also runs through to the airport on weekends, but on weekdays is paired up with the R3 Elwyn.

The R5, R7, R8 are still paired up on both sides.

They might complain about the costs of printing new maps and destination boards for the trains and monitors, so one alternative is to keep the same number but have the schedules and signs emphasize the name of the destination instead of the number. Right now, the R number is the biggest thing on the schedules and signs. Instead of a big R5, have a big "Paoli-Thorndale" or "Lansdale-Doylestown". I know it's just a graphic design change, but simple changes like these can be effective.

walt wrote:

chuchubob wrote:To an old fart like me, the Paoli Local is the Paoli Local. There are also the Wilmington Local, Trenton Local, Pennsy Chestnut Hill Local, Reading Chestnut Hill Local, Norristown Local, etc.

Don't forget the Media Local ( which I will always call the Media-West Chester Local). :-)

I didn't forget the Media Local...I just got tired of typing. [I'm an old fart].

http://community.webshots.com/photo/109 ... 4623MwqxvA

http://community.webshots.com/photo/109 ... 4823BDVsaj

Nice shot with both the Silverliner II and the IV. I preferred when they didn't have that red/blue stripe along the windows. Hopefully the line will be the Media-Wawa local ... and eventually the Media-West Chester.

SEPTA has to replace all their maps anyway. They still show "Lamokin" as being a station.

The pairing of routes was anything but "arbitrary." Professor Vukan Vuchic at the University of Pennsylvania performed a detailed study of the optimal route pairings which were later adopted by SEPTA several decades ago. I have a copy of the paper explaining the pairings--it reads very logically. If there is interest I can scan it into a PDF and post it tomorrow.

Full disclosure: I am a student of Dr. Vuchic's.