Recycling old rail cars

As it's been mentioned before, there's global demand for steel which is impacting new orders for passenger cars here in the US. If there is such a demand, why can't they recycle the old subways (and/or mothballed navy vessels) that they're blowing up and sending to Davy Jone's Locker to become coral reefs? I'm not saying to rebuild the cars, but strip them down, shred the steel up, and recycle it into new plate. Thoughts?

In the case of some New York rail cars, the cost of removing the asbestos is greater than the scrap value of the cars plus the cost to sink them offshore. In past years no one worried about asbestos, so they were cut up for scrap.

In some cases half century rail cars are sold for further use. VRE and MARC bought Metra gallery cars and they are in use today. The remaining Boston PCC cars on the Ashmont Mattapan line have been rebuilt and are about 65 years old.

Merchant ships are indeed scrapped. A common scenario is to sail them to Bangladesh and run them up the beach at high tide. An army of workers cut the ship apart and recycle the metal. Asbestos isn't much of a problem there. Some of the U.S. reserve fleet has been sold to ship breakers; not all Naval vessesls are sunk at sea as targets. Of course, the Navy learns about sinking ships by using them as targets Recently one nation tested a new torpedo design by sinking a retired warship (distroyer if I remember correctly).

To sum it up: Asbestos drives up the cost to the point where it doesn't pay to scrap. Probably rail cars without asbestos will be scrapped. A good part of new steel is recycled old steel, but I don't know the percentage.

VA RAIL FAN

I don't know about how much asbestos is in a railroad car vs an ocean ship, but in hopes that perhaps we don't just consider a Bangladeshi's health to be worse less than ours I like to think that maybe the asbestos risk is less, or methods and cost of face mask protection vs value of scrap steel tip the balance in favor of ship scrapping, without necessarily endangering anybody's health.

[quote="gardendance"]I don't know about how much asbestos is in a railroad car vs an ocean ship, but in hopes that perhaps we don't just consider a Bangladeshi's health to be worse less than ours.....[/quote]

You hit it exactly on the head. Life is cheaper in the Third World, not just labor.

cpontani wrote:As it's been mentioned before, there's global demand for steel which is impacting new orders for passenger cars here in the US. If there is such a demand, why can't they recycle the old subways (and/or mothballed navy vessels) that they're blowing up and sending to Davy Jone's Locker to become coral reefs? I'm not saying to rebuild the cars, but strip them down, shred the steel up, and recycle it into new plate. Thoughts?

The point of view of the proponents of constructing artificial reefs is that such use is recycling. The reefs have a significant environmental benefit by creating a habitat,on what was just a sand bottom, for marine life. That attracts fish which is of benefit to segments of the sport and commercial fishing industries. The sport recreational diving participants and industry benefit as well. The waters used are relatively shallow (around 60 to 90 feet if I recall correctly) which is ideal for all these purposes without constituting a hazard to navigation.

There is always a question over sending scrap to 3rd world countries. We are no longer allowed to burn electrical wire,to remove the insulation, to get pure copper. When I took some to the scrap dealer, He said it all went to China, where they have a "big Machine"that strips the insulation off. I know such machines exist, but I can't help wondering if they just burn it.

Asbestos is not a problem if it is sunk in the ocean?But plastic bottles are?Something wrong here.

rogruth wrote:Asbestos is not a problem if it is sunk in the ocean?But plastic bottles are?Something wrong here.

Hazardous substances must be removed prior to sinking as a condition of the permit to construct the artificial reefs.

The issue with Asbestos is dust.If the asbestos is in the walls . its unlikely to cause a significant dust problem deep underwater.

rogruth wrote:Asbestos is not a problem if it is sunk in the ocean?But plastic bottles are?Something wrong here.

Asbestos is a natural product, its dust/fibers that is harmful to lungs, in water it does not harm a thing.

Several companies in Oregon have attempted to set up shipbreaking operations, particularly in Coos Bay/North Bend and in Newport.

The environmental regulations (and opposition, due to environmental concerns) shot these proposals down. The companies would be required to do the work in drydocks, with full environmental containment systems, using trained hazardous materials workers in full protective suits. And of course, they're making $20-30 an hour plus benefits, only working eight hours a day (figure more like six hours actual work, when you account for suit up/suit down, breaks and so on...)

When you beach a ship on the shores of India or wherever else in the southeast of Asia, it's simple - find a beach (don't dare do this in Oregon), send the ship at high speed into the beach and ground it...then just scrap it. Oil spills? No big deal. Asbestos? Egh. What kind of metal dust is that? Who knows, who cares.