Question About Possible NE Philly (Frankford) ROW

While I seem to recall discussing this on the old RR.net, that was before we had Live Local and Google Earth
OK, so I was following the ROW of the former Pennsy Branch which branched off the NEC a little west of Whitaker Ave, and headed northeast parallel to and east of Whitaker, till it reached Roosevelt Blvd (where Home Depot and Walmart are), then curved NW and finally curved West and hoined the Septa R8 line a little north of Rising Sun Plaza (the shopping center and big box retailers indicate to me why this branch was abandoned North of Roosevelt, but does anyway know when and why it was abandoned near the NEC? Looks like lots of still viable industries there)
Well, so that ROW is well known and easily tracable - but behind Home Depot there looks like another ROW which picks up behind the Home Depot (probably connecting to the Pennsy Branch above, and perhaps serving the Naval 'Control Point' to the east) and heads Southeast, crossing Roosevelt in a clearly visible underpass, and then heading between Fillmore and Allengrove to Castor (the right of way seems in a valley after the underpass, and then flat, extra long backyards with fencing and pools start - almost Sim-City looking...
From Castor I believe I can trace the ROW as it winds South and East (it seems to be marked by a line of trees) to at least Griscom St between Church and Unity - possibly it went all the way to the NEC a few blocks south, but can anyone fill me in with info? (Note - this ROW is NOT Frankford creek, and doesn't seem to have been any sort of waterway at all).

It's the Reading Frankford branch, former Philadelphia & Frankford RR. Didn't quite reach the NEC, as you observed. Came off the Newtown Branch at Crescentville.

I didn't look at google earth to check for sure, but the PRR ROW that
goes to the old Sears site (home depot) should be the Oxford Road Branch, which I think was abandoned early 1980's. Used to be a lot of industry between Frankford Jct and N. Phila on the corridor, but now all gone, just abandoned bldgs, and the one that Bennet Levin uses for his equipt. Oxford road industries vanished during same time period..late 1960's thru early 1980's.

pdt

We're talking about the PRR's Oxford Rd. Branch and the Reading's Frankford Branch. The Rdg. crossed over the PRR at almost 90 degrees, but there was an interchange that made a 90 degree curve, running between the Whitaker Ave. grade crossing and the Roosevelt Blvd. underpass. There may have also been a track connection in the Supply Depot North of Godfrey Ave., since both lines seemed to have sidings into it.
The Rdg. line started at Frankford Jct. (between Olney and Crescentville) and ended at a high level in a passenger terminal on Frankford Ave. between Sellers and Unity Sts., at right angles to the Frankford Elevated. Later, the passenger service was cut back to Arrott St. Station, and the branch ended in a warehouse on Penn St. Occasionally, runaway freight cars would go through the back wall in an attempt to reach the site of the old passenger terminal.
The PRR line started near the C St. Yard near where the Corridor goes over Whittaker Ave. and ran almost straight beside Whittaker Ave. to a bumper in a junk yard high above the South side of Levick St. Embankments and property lines continue North almost to Pennypack Creek near the Reading's New York Shortline in Bustleton. The NorthEast branch of the Broad St. Subway is supposed to use this property.
Bennett Levin's operations are on the South side of the Corridor atr the junction of another PRR line, I think called the Fairhill Branch

JimBoylan wrote:The Rdg. line started at Frankford Jct. (between Olney and Crescentville) and ended at a high level in a passenger terminal on Frankford Ave. between Sellers and Unity Sts., at right angles to the Frankford Elevated. Later, the passenger service was cut back to Arrott St. Station, and the branch ended in a warehouse on Penn St. Occasionally, runaway freight cars would go through the back wall in an attempt to reach the site of the old passenger terminal.

Ah, there was a passenger terminal on Frankford Ave then - this makes sense as to why the Frankford branch ROW was extremely substantial (looking closely in Live Local you can see fairly large stone abutments along the ROW) although it seems mostly to run through residental areas with little heavy industry on-line (even allowing for reuse of land along the ROW). While the warehouse at the southern end of the ROW is certainly substantial, there are/were a number of larger ones scattered throughout Northeast Philly. I do like the large roll-up freight doors 2 stories up... http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2& ... ne=1853870

The PRR line started near the C St. Yard near where the Corridor goes over Whittaker Ave. and ran almost straight beside Whittaker Ave. to a bumper in a junk yard high above the South side of Levick St. Embankments and property lines continue North almost to Pennypack Creek near the Reading's New York Shortline in Bustleton. The NorthEast branch of the Broad St. Subway is supposed to use this property.

I presume that's the 'Pennway' ROW, although I don't think current plans (Preferred Option C prime or whatever) call for using the Pennway or PRR branch, but instead follow Roosevelt till the Broad Street Line.

Bennett Levin's operations are on the South side of the Corridor atr the junction of another PRR line, I think called the Fairhill Branch

Do you mean this? http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2& ... ne=1927982
This is a bit east of Whittaker on the NEC - you can see several locos, pass cars, and a caboose (albiet the lighting is horrible in that view). Also in the area, splitting off and heading south is indeed another ROW, which seems to be intact all the way south to Indiana Ave.

Sir Ray, the majority of the industry on the Frankford Branch was west of the Blvd. There was a lumberyard on the So. side of the tracks near the Jct. with the NY Short Line. The Bond Bakery was on the N. side of the tracks. The Exide Battery plant was on the So. side, across Rising Sun Ave. from the Lumberyard. Batteries for Navy Subs were one of the products produced here.

Continuing east, the Stokes Vacuum Co. had a siding on the south side, and there was another lumberyard and team track to the north. Another siding branched off to the north to a Steel fabricating Co., whose name escapes me at the moment.

Sears was the biggest customer, as this facility on the Blvd. used to be a catalog distribution warehouse. They also rec'd coal for their powerhouse.
There was another industry just to the north of Sears. Their name was mentioned in a previous post on the Frankford Br., and it's not coming back to me just yet.

There were a few more freight customers on the east side of the Blvd., including a candy company and some retail coal dealers, but no 'heavy' industry like the ones I mentioned above.

RDG467 wrote:Sir Ray, the majority of the industry on the Frankford Branch was west of the Blvd..

I assume you mean the majority of the industry was between the Septa R8 line and Roosevelt Blvd - this makes perfect sense, as you can still see factory buildings and industrial facilities in that area - albiet now the Big Box retailers dominant the area (I guess the area were Home Depot is now was were the Sears warehouse facility was (supposedly built with a subway station shell for the slighly delayed Roosevelt Blvd subway )
Things make a bit more sense when you realize that there were competing railroads in Philly (and other cities), and they would serve the same area (although my Philly atlas just consolidated the PC branch from the NEC to that area and the Reading Frankford to the R8, into just one L shaped rail line of course, neither active).
In NY City during the 20th century I don't believe there was anywhere near that competion in rail freight, every major railroad having their own fiefdom in regards to freight (meaning NYC had Manhattan and the West Bronx, PRR/NH had Queens, Brooklyn, East Bronx and the LIRR, and B&O had Staten Island - plus plenty of waterfront transfer yards for the other players such as LV, CNJ, and the Bush Terminal) - now Passengers, that was a different story).
Still, it puzzles me as to why the Frankford Branch Southeast of Roosevelt Blvd was so overbuilt with a lack of heavy industry, but as a passenger route it does make sense.

The siding "North to the steel fabricating company" must have split, as there were grade crossings of Whitaker Ave. just South of Godfrey Ave. into another metals industry, and of Godfrey Ave. just West of Whitaker Ave. into the Defense Supply industry. There was warehouse, coal trestle, and team track type industry, possible utility pole yard, also, East of the Arrott St. passenger station on the Reading. In the 1850s, there was industry along Tacony - Frankford Creek, especially South of Wyoming Ave. The Reading might have wanted to eventually reach that freight, or at least share the team track business with the NorthEast Corridor. One of my ancestors named Foulkrod had a mill near Castor Ave. and the creek.

[quote="JimBoylan"]We're talking about the PRR's Oxford Rd. Branch .... Embankments and property lines continue North almost to Pennypack Creek near the Reading's New York Shortline in Bustleton. The NorthEast branch of the Broad St. Subway is supposed to use this property.
quote]

Was their some original idea to connect the Oxford Road Branch (PRR)
to the Reading NY Shortline (which was relatively lately built, I think)? Doesanyone know the history...

[quote="JimBoylan"] The NorthEast branch of the Broad St. Subway is supposed to use this property.
quote]

Is this Northeast branch plan some piece of history, or is it a current plan?
Is there a web site with the current plan/map, if any?

Thanks, JS

pumpers wrote:Is this Northeast branch plan some piece of history, or is it a current plan?
Is there a web site with the current plan/map, if any?

This one I think I can help with - here was the latest Roosevelt Blvd study (which now isn't all that recent 2003 I think) this page has a map, but as I said in a prior post the PC Oxford Branch is not involved:

http://www.svmetro.com/projects/roosevelt-blvd.html

and the map:

http://www.svmetro.com/projects/img/roo ... -large.gif
This map not only has the Oxford branch on it, but the Frankford Branch too (neither used for the subway ROW)

For a while Alternate C' was supposed to be the final choice, but apparently that just sort of petered out....
Also note at least one alternative used the NY Short line.

See a 1948 report at http://www.phila.gov/PHILS/DOCS/Invento ... r/S069.htm
Scroll to item 69.9

"Preliminary Location Survey, Northeast Extension of Broad Street Subway ... a projected subway extension from a point between Erie and Godfrey Avenues to vicinity of Pennypack Circle."

Sounds like the 2nd avenue subway in NYC -- talked about for 50 -75 years or so...

JS

pumpers wrote:Was their some original idea to connect the Oxford Road Branch (PRR) to the Reading NY Shortline (which was relatively lately built, I think)?

There was also a PRR branch to Bustleton, which ended one long block East of the New York Shortline. The Oxford Rd. right of way seems to go almost that far North, and get tangled with the Short Line at Pennypack Creek. My father thought that Oxford Rd. was to be an alternate route to New York, but that's just hearsay.

I may be adding to the confusion here but I think the original question involved the PRR's line from the NEC Corridor near the Juniata Terminal north to what used to be called the Naval Depot. It was elctrified with catenary, handled quite a bit of traffic during WW II and terminated just to the North of Martin's Mill Road at a stub terminal. I do not think it ever went much further north of that spot and I don't know how much Sears traffic it handled, if any. I think most of that was handled by the Reading coming off the NY Shortline at Reading's (not PRR's) Frankford Junction.

JimBoylan wrote:There was also a PRR branch to Bustleton, which ended one long block East of the New York Shortline. The Oxford Rd. right of way seems to go almost that far North, and get tangled with the Short Line at Pennypack Creek. My father thought that Oxford Rd. was to be an alternate route to New York, but that's just hearsay.

The Bustleton Branch is active, but it stops short south of Roosevelt Blvd (The customers are to the east of Grant Ave, spread out along the north of the Airport) - I understand that it once went across Roosevelt Blvd, but not sure where or how far (edit - you can plainly see where it intersected Roosevelt - there are two tracks aimed straight N which end right before a Ford Dealership on Roosevelt, to the east of a warehouse and bakery (and now retail outlet/Dunkin Donuts) on Grant - on the other side is housing, and not particularly new housing at that, but we have had people on this board post that the Bustleton Branch crossed Roosevelt at that point on a bridge up till some point in the 1960s).
Now, further on east (near Woodhaven) there's a branch from the Short Line which nearly reaches that bakery (I forgot the company, but it's a fairly large building) on the north side of Roosevelt - I suppose there could have been constructed a round-about connection from the end of the Bustleton Branch to this branch, but I'm fairly certain none ever was.
And as for a straight expansion of the Oxford Branch, as I mentioned in a prior post would this have involved the 'Pennway' (which I remember reading on the old rr.net was purchased for just that purpose, but never built upon). I think some of the problem is that plans continually changed over the decades until the coming of Conrail pretty much put a stop to that (and also put a stop to both the Frankford and Oxford Branches).
I believe that yet another through route via NE Philly probably would have been pushing the overcapacity (Reading Short Line/NEC/and the Oxford/Pennway/whatever)

Yes, the original charter of the Oxford Road Branch authorized it to build through Bustleton to Fallsington (on the Trenton Cut-Off).