Private equipment collection at Colonie and Glenmont

Ben

The equipment was originally stored at the power plant because it was secure, local and available. I believe the pieces were moved there in the late 80's to early 90's (someone else here might be able to answer that better). The locomotives were all owned by the Mohawk & Hudson Chapter NRHS and the passenger cars by private parties. In those days the M & H chapter was looking for a permanent home and the theory was, as most organizations have done in the past, store the stuff until they find a home. That home never came for one reason or another (depending on who you ask). Eventually the power plant requested the stuff removed from inside their secure fence (once again I have heard several opinions as to why) and the stuff was pushed out onto the former D&H branch from the Port of Albany, the fence put up, and a mound of dirt piled on the track inside the fence. Years of vandalism have followed, along with two ownership changes of the equipment and one at the power plant. That brings us to the situation we are currently in.

I've been racking my brain over this situation for many years now, and the only solution to the problem I can see is to either repair the bridge or replace it with large temporary culverts and fill. As it has been said before, the bridge is in unstable condition with the pilings being the main problem. It was also cobbled together from other components including a turntable. Temporary culverts could be an easy affordable solution, but I imagine there would be a mountain of red tape to deal with in trying to put them in. I wouldn't even know where to start. Once the stuff is on the other side of the Normans Kill though, you will have much better access to it for loading on flat cars. You could even use gauge bars and safety ties and move the stuff right into the Port of Albany. Just wishful thinking without $$$ though.

Some where in my archives I have pics of the bridge. If I can find them I will post a few.

Is the spur off Conrail (CSX) currently used for anything? If not, it doens't seem like it would be -that- hard (relative hardness terms, of course- i.e. easier than a new bridge or a skycrane helicopter to move them piece-by-piece) to get a rigger in there (eitehr by land access to the D&H trackage via the north, but south of the bridge, overland) or by a temporary access road under th epower line (where the existing pulloff/illegal dumping ground is) and fill along the northern perimeter fence of the power plant (the cut for the CSX spur into the plant is not more than 8-10 feet deep right along the fence- maybe even sweeten the pot and say that the stone used for a temporary fill is CSX/power plant/whoevers at the termination of the project and will be stockpiled at a nearby location of their choice upon removal. From there, get them out either by truck or put them on flats on the spur for shipment. No, it wouldn't be effortless or free, just more realistic and cheaper than building a bridge or bringing in military choppers. Has anyone looked at it from those angles?

Ps. I'm a civil engineer and have been to the site, and there's nothing I've suggested here that seems particulary costly or challenging, physcially at least, compared with site work I've seen to get drill rigs or earthmoving equipment and dump trucks into the back 40 of contaminated sites for remediation. Legal issues with CSX, power plant, power line/land ownership under power line, etc. may still be stumbling blocks, and it still won't be $free, of course. But might at least be realistic. Just throwing it out there, there's always the possibility that someone involved didn't already think about it.

RussNelson wrote:

nessman wrote:If the bridge over Normanskill Creek was still intact - you have a shot at getting that stuff out of there.

I've been to the bridge. It sounds like you haven't. Who are you going to believe -- me or your lying eyes?

I haven't been there. But from the pictures I've seen - I wouldn't want to walk across it - let alone pull 100+ ton equipment across it.

I think there may be another problem with this rolling stock -- maybe somebody knows more -- as I believe the T and S motors have friction bearings, which means they are not legal for interchange. Does that ring any bells?

I recall that there were some discussions within the Chapter about sending the T and S motors off to live elsewhere, maybe where they could have some third rail action, although even in the '90s there was some question about if they could actually run under their own power, but I think that the problem with the friction bearings had something to do with that not happening. I don't recall if this was before or after they were shoved up the branch, but I think before.


Also, I recall that when the equipment was ejected from inside the power plant some of us went up to the bridge to see how far out we could move things. Some thought that perhaps at some point the equipment could be moved into the Port area, where there is plenty of room between the bridge and where the branch is out of service, or that the equipment could ultimately be moved over the bridge. The bridge was in pretty poor shape then, so that ended those discussions.

Prior to that I believe that the bridge had never been part of any plans, that the plan had always been to use the existing tracks in the power plant (where the D&H and NYC tracks came together) to swing the equipment onto the old NYC connection for any movement. When the equipment had to be moved, the connection still existed. In hindsight that was a now-or-never moment. It seems that just pushing them up the D&H branch lacked foresight, and even at the time once they went up the branch I pretty much just presumed that there would not be a positive outcome.


That was all some time ago, so I'm not sure of all of the specifics, but that is some of the history as I can remember it.

Researching things a bit...

The power plant converted from coal to oil in 1970 - thus ending coal shipments it via PC and the D&H. Oil was barged in on the Hudson River until the boilers were taken off line in the late 90's/early 00's and new natural gas fired steam turbines were put in (with the ability to fire oil in the event natural gas supply is cut off). At some point the former D&H Cabbage Island Branch where the M&H collection sits now was taken out of service south of Normanskill Creek due to lack of traffic and the deteriorating bridge over the creek.

The equipment was brought to the plant sometime in the early 80's. You can find online pictures of the electrics looking pristine back then with the power plant in the background. It's likely they were pushed down the old D&H spur prior to construction of the gas plant by the plant's new owners (unsure how - there was a 44-tonner there to move coal cars around with...).

They couldn't push the stuff up the CSX spur because it was used during the natural gas plant construction to move dimensional equipment in and out (it was rehabbed for the project). But access to that track needed to remain intact as it's the only way in and out of there via railroad.

traingeek8223 wrote:It was also cobbled together from other components including a turntable.

Well, it would be two or no turntables, not one. But I don't believe that either of them is a turntable bridge, because there are no supports underneath for a center pivot. I believe that what you're seeing is a prefabricated bridge section.

Here are my photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/russnelso ... 572056879/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who owns the bridge?

Is the creek deep enough to bring a barge up to the bridge site? Also, maybe get a military unit involved as a training exercise? (I know, very unlikely in today's budgetary climate, but still...)

Scott K.

Russ

Thanks for the pics. I have admittedly never been to the bridge personally and only had photos and word of mouth to go on (that's where the turntable story stems from). The photos I had weren't as good as yours and I can see where most people think it is a turntable. I forgot about that pipeline. That is yet another obstacle.

Several years ago when the Berkshire Scenic owned the equipment and was actively trying to rescue it, RJ Corman was contracted to do the job (I talked to their people personally on the subject). The logical next move after negations with the power plant broke down was to build a temporary road across the low area in between the two branches. They were met with nothing but road blocks when this was brought up, first because of the power lines and the problems associated with using cranes under them and then because the low area is classified as "wet lands". They would have been forced to use "swamp mats" instead of fill and they would not have been able to support the weight of the locomotives.

As to scrapping anything, the same problems of access arise. You need to be able to haul out the cut up chunks and at this point that is an impossibility. Nature and further vandalism are the main concerns for the foreseeable future.

As a whole, these units are extremely heavy, which is the major impediment to any attempt at moving them. However, these units are just like any other machine: they are made up of individual parts that have been bolted or riveted together. Has anyone considered carefully disassembling them into indivudal pieces, photographing and documenting their locations, then transporting them for reassembly elsewhere? They don't have to be treated as a solid piece.

This method has been used by the Connecticut Antique Machinery Association to rescue stationary steam engines. I believe the locomotives in Roanoke were removed in a similar way. Also, more locally to me, the Friend's of Engine 35 were able to easily move the engine to Oyster Bay because it was disassembled.

That said, the obvious risk there is that, if ownership changes halfway during the process, then parts could easily get lost or scattered to the wind by people looking for "souveniers".

This info is probably buried way back in the threads, which I surely missed when scanning the old posts, but on this page of this thread, there are images of the 4 locomotives stored at Glenmont.
However, looking at either Google or Bing (Bing view here), there is additional equipment on that branch North of the loco - what are those? Passenger cars? Old MUs?

The line of equipment goes as follows:

From the power plant fence going north:

NYC S1 Electric 100 (prototype and one of a kind)

NYC T3a Electric 278 (Last of it's kind)

Amtrak RS3 126 (ex. NYC 8254)

Conrail U25B 2510 (ex. NYC 2510)

These four locomotives are now owned by the Danbury Railway Museum and were formerly owned by the Mohawk & Hudson Chapter

Next in line:

D&H Baggage Car 154(?) Formerly owned by the Great North East Railroad Foundation (GNERF) and now unfortunately burdened on my
ALCO Historical & Technical Society.

PC MOW HW Pullman 27148 Formerly PRR 34 seat parlor John Hancock, privately owned, owner believes it to be scrapped

D&H Diners 41 & 42 Saratoga Inn and Adirondack Lodge, originally C&O then Rio Grande, Purchased for upgraded Laurentian and later rebuilt for
revived Adirondack. Went to Metro North with other NYS sponsored D&H equipment when Amtrak put turbos on Adirondack.
Both survived Grand central terminal fire (one barely). Privately owned (apparently by TT)

Here is a link to the photos I took in 2007. The Glenmont stuff is center of the page:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiv ... x?id=10242

It's was once all good stuff. Time has not being kind though.

kind of a crazy question but when did the diesels run last? and did the NRHS Group that had / owned them start them every now and then before the vandals got in there?

traingeek8223 wrote:As to scrapping anything, the same problems of access arise. You need to be able to haul out the cut up chunks and at this point that is an impossibility.

Nonsense. If we all agree to meet up sometime next week with some wrenches and screw guns, we can carry out the locomotives bolt by bolt and reassemble them someplace else.

I also enjoy the flurry of "true concern" that crops up over this collection every couple of years. This stuff has been out there for nearly 30 years. Some very dedicated people with deep pockets and technical know-how did many legitimate attempts in recent years to save the items under discussion. Hopefully DRM can make it happen for real this time, but it seems like there is "no way out" so for now the Glemont pieces sit. As for Colonie, what has been done is done and now it's up to Fate.

That's my opinion.

-otto-

Who owns the bridge? The rail line on the other side of the bridge?