Potential MBTA Southern NH Service

A lot of people have jobs in Mass that allow them to pay (often hefty) NH property tax that supports all those services. And NH car registration fees and restaurant taxes and plumbers and painters and grocery stores and buy things from the state liquor stores and whatnot. Maybe the state government of NH doesn't clearly make money from people with Mass jobs, but the NH economy and a lot of southern NH towns must.

The Commonwealth gets a few percent of those commuters' income in state income tax, and most of the rest gets spent in NH.

The folks over at TransitMatters released their report on improving the Lowell Line with service to NH.

For those interested in the report click here https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... l+Line.pdf

Interesting, but does anyone other than their fans even take their "reports" seriously anymore? I mean you would think that they haven't even looked at the actual AECOM/NHDOT study. They call for full electrification and EMUs (they are the ones spearheading this pipe dream, so that was expected) which they state would add 90 million dollars to the cost, way to make NH even more skeptical about this extension, especially when they know that the added cost would likely be much more. They also strangely call for two more stops in Lowell (UMASS Lowell and Rourke Bridge) for seemingly no reason, especially when you consider that Lowell already has an extensive bus system that could be modified to connect these areas with the current Lowell station if they don't already. They also propose to place Manchester and Nashua stations in the wrong spots when compared to the actual NHDOT study being conducted. But perhaps the worst thing about this is that they do NOT propose to have trains stop in Bedford, instead opting for a stop in Merrimack. The reason this is so important is that the Bedford/MHT stop proposed in the NHDOT study provides one of the biggest benefits that this extension offers to New Hampshire, the opportunity to bring more passenger traffic to MHT. Manchester-Boston Regional Airport is the fifth largest airport in New England, yet is a dying airport with traffic decreasing yearly at a relatively severe rate since the early 2000s. This Commuter Rail extension offers the chance to make MHT more attractive for any Massachusetts resident flying domestically to an area with flights originating in Manchester, and ultimately have New Hampshire's most vital aviation gateway rejuvenated. But no, TransitMatters would rather have trains stopping in Merrimack for... some reason. For a group that likes to pride themselves as being experts in the field, you really would expect better, but again, all this group does is advocate for pipe dreams and pat themselves on the back for "holding the MBTA accountable" or something.
The AECOM/NHDOT study is due to be finished in 2 months now, let's wait until then, and we'll actually have something of substance to analyze.

MHT is “dying” because Southwest now flies into Boston and that removes the value of flying from MHT. Also if I want to go to PVD I can take the commuter rail there and walk to the terminal, no need for any shuttle bus.

You are right, but when an airline stops flying to a certain airport, it usually means that the airport itself does not have sufficient traffic to justify airlines flying to it anymore. Airlines choosing not to fly to MHT and therefore flyers choosing not to fly from there is a result of the airport itself becoming less popular, not vice versa. The effective way to fix this issue would be to provide an easy and fairly fast way of getting to the airport (i.e. Commuter Rail), and with the "Regional Rail schedules" currently in place, this just makes it even more convenient for flyers to get to MHT in just over an hour. And if the shuttle buses serving the airport are frequent and don't take too long to get to the terminal (they just have to cross the access bridge, so that won't be a problem) then that wouldn't be much of a problem either.
The only way this can be messed up in a way is if the MBTA only has half the amount of trains actually going as far north as Manchester, this would be a similar case to the situation with T.F. Green Airport, which has just about half as many trains as Providence does, which not only caused it and Wickford Junction to have much lower ridership than originally foretasted, but also caused the T.F. Green Airport to not benefit as much from the Rail extension as it could have, though luckily for them, T.F. Green seems to have enough of a population around it to still provide enough people choosing to fly out of them rather than out of Boston if possible, a luxury that MHT does not have. This is part of the reason why I believe that when this extension does happen, all Lowell trains should be extended to Manchester, as otherwise, Bedford/MHT and Manchester stations would be underutilized, I also believe that Wickford Junction should be double tracked and all Providence trains extended to terminate there, but that is a discussion for a different thread.

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:39 pm

BandA wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:50 pm Who's going to pay for it? NH doesn't have a personal income tax, so if the Commuter Rail is taking people to their jobs in Boston then Massachusetts should pay for the subsidy.

NH won't pay for it, which is why it's unlikely to happen.

That's the whole point..Ya' gotta' pay to play..
I live on Cape Cod,..Now The town Of Bourne has
been paying into the MBTA pool for quite a while
in anticipation of CR service to Buzzards Bay,which
could have been done 5 years ago..Hasn't happened..
So why should Mass,tax dollars go to a state that wants
something for nothing..when we might benefit from
what our state might offer..Riddle me this..if NH doesn't
wanna' pony up ,should I care ??

I thought all Providence trains were extended to PVD when that station opened. The fact that they weren’t is stupid. I’m surprised RIDOT and the airport authority didn’t come up with money to have a regular shuttle from Providence to PVD, perhaps every 20 or 30 minutes.

The cost of living in Boston is off the charts… Nashua NH has a lot off low income residents that need access to jobs and Boston has poor black and Hispanics that ate being priced out of there neighborhoods. Nashua-Affordable Housing..Boston.-Lving wage jobs

I thought all Providence trains were extended to PVD when that station opened. The fact that they weren’t is stupid. I’m surprised RIDOT and the airport authority didn’t come up with money to have a regular shuttle from Providence to PVD, perhaps every 20 or 30 minutes.

Not only do Warwick and North Kingstown only get half as many trains as the rest of the line does, but they also get no weekend service. The State of Rhode Island spent taxpayer money to build this extension, and its barely used at all because the MBTA (or RIDOT) decided that only half the weekday trains should actually use it, now many people in RI think that investing in Rail infrastructure is a waste of money because they have seen what happened with this extension and don't know the full story.
There are buses that run to T.F. Green from various points around Providence, but I do not know what the frequency or usefulness of these buses are, what I do know is that Commuter Rail should be made into a better option for going to the airport, and doing that is as simple as extending all the Providence slots that don't currently go to Wickford, renaming the line to better reflect the new service (Wickford Line or Rhode Island Line), and possibly double tracking Wickford Junction Station, though I am not sure how simple that would be, depending on if another siding would be added next to the garage, or if a second platform would be built on the mainline. But again, this is all a discussion for a separate thread, lets hope the MBTA and NHDOT don't make the same mistake as this.

Here's an idea:

What if some public-private partnership funds this to start the service for a few years, and then once this service becomes part of people's routines, travel and commuting patterns, threaten to cut the funding, and make it political suicide for those in New Hampshire to not pick it up and continue funding it?

MickD wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:46 am Riddle me this..if NH doesn't
wanna' pony up ,should I care ??

If you drive Route 3 or I-93 north of Boston, you should care, because traffic congestion there can be downright horrifying.

Perhaps MA should threaten to start closing lanes. That'll make people north of the state line sit up and take notice.

There absolutely should be tollbooths inbound to Mass. If NH needs tolls for a measly 18 miles (dunno what concod is but it ain't no Mass Pike), then theres no reason the taxdodgers should escape $5-10 to come here for work.

They can always get employed in a strip mall or Truck Store, nh's two main industries.

Bingo! And if I have to pay NH to get to Maine, NH should be paying us to make their money from our economy.

New Hampshire residents are paying Massachusetts (non-resident income tax) to make money off of the Mass. economy. And Mass. still gets to tax its own residents who go up to NH to work in truck stops or strip malls or theme parks or water parks or resorts.

How about a massive Transit Oriented Development out where land is cheap, for all those po'foke where were displaced out of Boston due to unaffordable housing? Put it in the middle of Mass. so New Hampshirites and Rhode Islanders, etc. don't mooch off of it. Or put it on the border and out of staters will add to the fares collected. Such a huge development would justify 15 minute service all day that the rich folks in between can take advantage of.

Another idea I had (off topic) is to design shopping malls to be transit friendly. The mall building would be reasonably near close to the highway so buses can just pull over and load and unload quickly and/or an elevated rail line can easily serve malls on both sides of the highway.. Most of the customer parking would be in the rear which would improve safety for transit customers and also improve vehicle ingress and egress so as to reduce traffic congestion on the main road due to jostling and lane changing at the last moment.

I guess you want to add a stop at the Pheasant Lane mall then? Could even still be in Massachusetts.