Al Qaeda Rail Terror Plans (was: may want to derail a train)

Guys and gals,

1) See something, say something. We all have cell phones, and 911 is a three digit phone call. If you frequent a particular line, get to know the local dispatch numbers along the line.

2) You are thinking in terms of passenger rail. I promise you, there are urban areas where the right hazardous material in the right freight car becomes a Cold War era "weapon of mass destruction" in the sense that I as someone from the Army understand it. DOT hazmat placards are easy to read.

3) Constant vigilance is a worthy watchword.

It's worth pointing out that terrorists of this kind have already struck trains. In 2005 three bombs on Underground trains in London killed 52 people and injured many more (including people killed on a bus). In Spain attacks on Madrid suburban commuter trains at the height of the rush hour killed many more. Commuter trains are the most likely targets because the terrorists can kill more people.

try to comprehend how many trains operated in countries not on Al Queda's buddy list, and try to offset that by how many trains were hit by Al Queda ?.
less that 1/7500, and we worry about what ??????????

DutchRailnut wrote:try to comprehend how many trains operated in countries not on Al Queda's buddy list, and try to offset that by how many trains were hit by Al Queda ?.
less that 1/7500, and we worry about what ??????????

Exactly... how many vehicles have Amtrak struck since 9/11?

a lot more than a few a year LOL

Moved to "general" forum. I don't think there's anything specific on Amtrak, but rail in general.

Indeed, Jeff. Amtrak might hold appeal as a symbol of the United States' government, but doesn't hold the same potential for causing chaos as an attack on a standing-room-only commuter train. Also, Colonel Perkorski rightly points out that terrorists could deal a far greater blow to the country by use of the noxious chemicals traveling the country by rail on a daily basis. If specifics come to light about an Amtrak plot, one of us will transfer this topic back to that forum.

Al Qaeda Confirms Osama Bin Laden's Death - Yahoo! News
ObL and his colleagues were thinking of places like NYC, DC, and Chicago. All three cities have sizable urban and commuter rail systems.

As to toxic railroad disasters, the recent one I remembered is when a Southern Pacific train derailed and spilled some pesticide at the Cantara Loop in July 1991: A Toxic Nightmare: The Dunsmuir Metam Sodium Spill Revisited

DutchRailnut wrote:Derailing a train may or may not cause casualties, but then if we worry about train derailments we better watch for profesional truck drivers, they seem to derail way more trains due to stupidity, than El Quaida can do with planning.

Apparently the 1995 Phoenix Sunset crash is still unsolved? You could look it up where that one killed 1 & hurt others.

lpetrich wrote:Al Qaeda Confirms Osama Bin Laden's Death - Yahoo! News
ObL and his colleagues were thinking of places like NYC, DC, and Chicago. All three cities have sizable urban and commuter rail systems.

As to toxic railroad disasters, the recent one I remembered is when a Southern Pacific train derailed and spilled some pesticide at the Cantara Loop in July 1991: A Toxic Nightmare: The Dunsmuir Metam Sodium Spill Revisited

Don't forget a Norfolk Southern incident that occurred in Graniteville, South Carolina. Happened in 2005 because of an improperly lined switch, in which a through train struck a parked train on the siding at Avondale Mills. Chlorine gas was spilled, which attributed to eight deaths on that 2005 day, and a ninth individual who died a short time later ( drove through the chlorine gas cloud ). A similar accident involving a BNSF crew, thankfully without a chemical spill led the FRA to mandate that switches be lined for main line trains. There were other incidents that year involving hazardous chemicals. A union Pacific switching operation experienced a derailment in Texas, derailing 3 cars of hydrogen peroxide.

Considering the amount of hazardous chemicals transported by rail, the amount of incidents isn't remarkably high. However there should be more emphasis on securing tanker cars that carry chemicals ( sort of like the double hull requirement for oil tankers in the wake of a spill in Prince William Sound ). There could even be a push to speed up the removal of older, and more vulnerable equipment ( it would be costly, but well worth it in the long run ).

I would think the money would be better spent ensuring derailments dont happen . PTC anyone ? track sensors to monitor washouts ?

http://www.nj.com/hobokennow/index.ssf/ ... l_not.html
34 people injured, train pulling into Hoboken ran into end of track bumper.
Apparently just a regular accident. Remember the old days when that was probably our first assumption, and we didn't need the newsaper to say "not terror related"?
I guess old fashioned trip arm train stop didn't seem to work, which kind of supports David Benton's idea that maybe money's better spent on other things.
I think I remember within the last 20 years a few North Jersey teenagers with little else to do opened a switch to a stub end siding and caused a fatal commuter passenger train wreck.

I hope however noone thinks I'm trying to say we shouldn't exercise some reasonable common sense diligence against terrorism or run of the mill vandalism.

Patrick Boylan wrote: I think I remember within the last 20 years a few North Jersey teenagers with little else to do opened a switch to a stub end siding and caused a fatal commuter passenger train wreck.

They made a movie about that incident, it's a 2005 title called "Tracks". It's directed and written by one of the four youths, Peter Wade. He's surprisingly turned his life around from what I've read, making some good money too.