VIAs new observation cars ?

Montrealrail wrote:For put that car on the Renaissance car,I do not believe that will be possible,when the VIA 14/16 leaving out Montreal,and they combine Renaissance with Budd cars,traverllers are not allowed to get from renaissance car to a budd car,and they use to put the baggages car at the center,to get insured that no traveller can change of train while running..

But I eared about that some travelers prefer the Ultra-Dome car to a Park car at the end of the train..

It would be possible to use the Ultra-Dome (or Panorama, as VIA originally labelled them) cars on the end of a Renaissance consist in the same way the Park cars are used on the Ocean in the summer. It would require a transition car of course, but could be done.

Montrealrail, you refer to the combined Chaleur/Ocean (16/14) running with Budd and Renaissance cars combined out of Montreal. This is true. The reason though that passengers are not allowed to pass between Budd and Renaissance cars has nothing to do with the type of coaches. Even when The Ocean is also running with Budd cars, there is still no allowance for passengers to move between the two trains, and if the Chaleur were (in theory) to use Renaissance cars, the two trains would still need to be kept separate. The reason is that if you're riding on train 14, you have a ticket for train 14, NOT train 16, and vice versa. So obviously, you cannot move from the train you are on, to a different train on which you do not have a ticket. This both prevents passengers from taking advantage of amenities on one train that are not offered on the other, taking up seats from passengers who paid to be on the other train, or even getting stuck on the wrong train and ending up in Halifax instead of Gaspe.

The placement of baggage cars in the centre of the train is for convenience, not to stop passengers from moving through. Passengers are stopped by locked doors at the rear of Train 16 and the front of Train 14. When the trains are split at Matapedia, the locomotives and consist for The Chaleur (16) detach, and move away from the Ocean (14). The two locomotives for the Ocean are then detached, and go back and couple to the front of The Ocean. There is no need to shuffle baggage cars around, as each train is all ready to go. It's just the locomotives that need to be shuffled.

Those cars are awesome, hope to ride one someday. If anyone is interested, on ebay you can find lookmodels. They make a brass model of it in N scale, fully painted with trucks and couplers. I have one and it is beautiful. In my world it will be operating out of Montreal and Dorval though!

VIA made an excellent decision to buy these single level "ultradomes" from the former BC-Rail passenger operations. They are really fantastic cars for "Touring Class" on the Skeena, especially when coupled with a Park Car on the rear, as it allows "Touring Class" passengers to experience the best of both worlds - your typical dome (Park Car dome section) and then also a single level "wrap-a-round" window ultra dome. VIA has three of these cars on their roster, when only two are needed to cover the tri-weekly "Touring Class" on the Skeena (Jasper-Prince Rupert) train. However, occasionally I've heard that if "Touring Class" gets booked up on a given day or week, VIA will run two of the ultradomes in the consist.

There are rumblings that VIA is planning to use the three Panorama dome cars on the Canadian between Winnipeg and Vancouver this summer replacing the second Skyline car in the consist. If this comes to pass then we'll have to see what becomes of Totem Deluxe/Touring class on the Skeena. There would be enough Skylines to cover both the eastern Canadian and the Skeena if that's the plan.

Ken V wrote:There are rumblings that VIA is planning to use the three Panorama dome cars on the Canadian between Winnipeg and Vancouver this summer replacing the second Skyline car in the consist. If this comes to pass then we'll have to see what becomes of Totem Deluxe/Touring class on the Skeena. There would be enough Skylines to cover both the eastern Canadian and the Skeena if that's the plan.

I would hate to see this happen, as I think these Panorama cars are EXCELLENT for service on the Skeena (Jasper-Prince Rupert train). Leave the Canadian alone with its Skyline Dome cars so that the Skeena can have a marketable "Touring Class" service with meals served in the Panorama car etc. It basically functions as premium coach space on the Skeena. Not sure what its function would be on the Canadian.

Interestingly, I see that the Panorama car is not listed under the "Touring Class" of the Jasper-Prince Rupert train aka Skeena train any more. Looks like they may put all Touring class passengers in the "Park Car?" Again, I'd hate to see the Skeena train lose these cars when offering its Touring Class. Hopefully this will not come to pass.....

.Taurus. wrote: They didn't use them in the long distance trains ( which now use the newer "Renaissance" cars ) as an replacement for the older dome cars, right ?
Pics of Budd Observation Car and Renaissance Cars (1) and (2)

They still use this kind of car,on Ocean/Chaleur and probable on the Canasian too
have a look on my video,they also combine Budd and Renaissance cars..
http://www.rail-videos.net/video/view.php?id=6322

and sometime,only renaissance car with the BUDD car at the end...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=linXz3UXWi0

In the previous post - for the video - the Chaleur consist is in the front (stainless steel Budd ex-CP cars with Skyline Dome/Lounge as mid-train car seperating sleepers from coaches) and the Ocean follows with the Renaissance cars and stainless steel Budd ex-CP Park Car Dome/Lounge bringing up the markers. For the Chaleur and Ocean to be tacked on to Renaissance consists, they need either The Park Car Dome/Lounge is only used on the Ocean during peak season as part of its "Touring Class," whereas the Chaleur will always operate with a Skyline dome car as it doubles as both a diner and lounge for most of the year, except during peak seasons when VIA may add a regular full Diner to it (but still the stainless steel Budd ex-CP car). Also they need a transition car on the Ocean to go between Renaissance equipment and the Park Car Dome/Lounge and then a coupler of sorts so the Ocean and Chaleur can be coupled to gether (baggage car I believe allows for this.

Has VIA been using the Panorama cars at all this winter? I assume it's a no for this winter, anyone know if VIA plans to use them next summer?

jp1822 wrote:Also they need a transition car on the Ocean to go between Renaissance equipment and the Park Car Dome/Lounge and then a coupler of sorts so the Ocean and Chaleur can be coupled to gether (baggage car I believe allows for this.

The transition car at the rear of the Renaissance consist to attach the Park car is a baggage car made from a gutted sleeper shell, with a simple walkway through the car (with non-skid floors and railings for passengers to walk easily) and space for some baggage. They can also be used as baggage cars. It has a standard Renaissance coupler at one end, and a traditional knuckle coupler at the other end. Every Renaissance baggage car also has a Renaissance style coupler at one end, and a knuckle coupler at the other end. This is the only way they can be coupled to locomotives. To couple the Ocean to the back of the Chaleur is easy enough, since the first car of the Ocean is a baggage car with standard coupler, so that the locomotives can be attached to the lead when the two trains are split.

Interestingly, when VIA first received the Renaissance cars and put them into service on the now-defunct Enterprise overnight service between Toronto and Montreal, instead of adding knuckle couplers to the Ren cars, they modified 3 F40PH's with Renaissance-style couplers. F40's #6424, 6425, and 6426, were briefly outfitted with Renaissance style couplers (on the rear only), and then stayed in dedicated Renaissance service. This ended following the IRSI rebuilds, when sufficient baggage-transition cars were outfitted, and a number of coaches had knuckles put on one end to serve at the end of Renaissance consists (for convenience). It is interesting to note how VIA's original plan to convert the couplers on all of the Renaissance cars never came through. The cost-benefit analysis must not have been as favourable as they would have liked.

While both the Baggage Cars and the Transition Cars are constructed from Sleeper Shells, they are different.........

Baggage Cars have had most of their underfloor equipment removed e.g. AC units etc and are easy to spot with their clean undersides and the interiors are bare.

The Transition Cars have carpeted interiors with display murals and handrails along the walls. There’s storage lockers and freezer space for the additional dining car items required when “Touring Class” is offered.

NS VIA FAN wrote:While both the Baggage Cars and the Transition Cars are constructed from Sleeper Shells, they are different.........

Baggage Cars have had most of their underfloor equipment removed e.g. AC units etc and are easy to spot with their clean undersides and the interiors are bare.

The Transition Cars have carpeted interiors with display murals and handrails along the walls. There’s storage lockers and freezer space for the additional dining car items required when “Touring Class” is offered.

Thanks NS VIA Fan, for pointing that out. I did not mean to imply that they were the same thing, simply that they were similar, and built from ex-sleeper shells. The transition cars also have two of the side windows that are not blanked out, a feature shared by some Ren baggage cars (mainly those in the corridor), though not by the ones on the Ocean. A good external view of each version, in use on the Ocean, can be found in the Renaissance section of VIA Rail's fleet page, here: http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/our-fleet

Ken V wrote:There are rumblings that VIA is planning to use the three Panorama dome cars on the Canadian between Winnipeg and Vancouver this summer replacing the second Skyline car in the consist. If this comes to pass then we'll have to see what becomes of Totem Deluxe/Touring class on the Skeena. There would be enough Skylines to cover both the eastern Canadian and the Skeena if that's the plan.

The rumour is partly true. A friend of mine has received an e-mail from a VIA manager confirming that a Panorama car will be added to the consist of the Canadian starting 30th April ex-Vancouver - for sleeping car passengers only, like the Park car. It will be operated between Vancouver and Edmonton and return on every run. It's not clear whether this is a summer-only operation, but the Canadian charges winter fares until 1st June so it is going to be an amenity for at least two months in the off-peak season.

So I guess we now know the fate of the Panorama cars?

And this will likely mean two out of the three cars will be needed in order to operate over the route, one being a spare? The Canadian is loaded with dome cars, so one would think the dome Skyline and Park Car observation cars would suffice, rather than taking up a Panorama car for being just an "observation car of sleeping car passengers."

I think this is poor move on VIA's part, as it will downgrade the "Touring Class" of the Prince Rupert-Jasper train. And honestly, these Panorama cars really made "Touring Class" worth while (ex-Totem, ex-Totem Deluxe etc.) between Jasper and Prince Rupert. After all, the Panorama cars when operating in "Touring Class" on the Prince Rupert-Jasper train took on capacity as a deluxe revenue coach, so to speak.

I had was planning on taking a trip on the Jasper to Prince Rupert train in late June this year, but since it appears (and still does I guess) that these Panorama cars are not going to be operating in Touring Class along this route, I decided on another alternative - Rocky Mountaineer Banff to Vancouver. Done both trips before, but VIA's Jasper to Prince Rupert train with the Panorama cars really made this train quite unique and worthwhile for the $$$ charged.