A LIttle History OF VIA's Chaleur

marquisofmississauga wrote: The CN timetables of that era didn't mention the existence of the parlour seats in the listing of Equipment. Even though this was an RDC-2, the timetables show that no checked baggage was carried. It's interesting to note that in the mid-1960s in addition to the daily RDC service on this route there was also a daily ex. Sunday mixed train. I'm missing the summer 1967 timetable, so I can't say for sure when through train service started that year, but the RDCs ran until at least the change of time in April.

Through Train To Gaspe Inaugrated May 31 - June 1, 1967. Here's the Timetable:
The Chaleur name first appears in CN’s summer 1964 timetable replacing the Advance Ocean Limited between Montreal and Campbellton then again in the winter 1964/65 timetable for the holidays. But by summer 1965 it was now a permanent year-round train.

In June 1967, Canada’s Centennial Year, the Chaleur gained a Gaspe section with through coaches, sleepers, meal & lounge cars between Matapedia and Gaspe. Prior to that, Gaspe passengers changed at Matapedia to RDC Railiners or conventional trains running between Campbellton and Gaspe.

The Chaleur was extended to Moncton in October 1967 and lasted until January 1970 *** when it was discontinued and the through cars to Gaspe were now on the Scotian eastbound from Montreal to Matapedia and on the Ocean westbound. The through cars lasted until the fall of 1979. During this period the service transitioned from CN to VIA.

(***except in summer 1968 when the Chaleur went direct to Gaspe and the Matapedia-Campbellton-Moncton section was replaced by the Cabot)

The Chaleur did return as a separate Montreal - Gaspe train for the Summers of 1970 ‘71 ‘72 ‘73 & ‘74 and even carried a Skyview (x Milwaukee Skytop) sleeper observation for a couple of seasons.

On October 28, 1979 VIA restructured the Montreal <> Maritime services and the through cars to Gaspe were gone and replaced by a connecting service at Matapedia with either an RDC or conventional train depending on the season. VIA did offer a through Montreal-Gaspe full service coach & sleeping car train during Christmas 1979 ‘80 ‘81 & ‘82.

Then in May 1983 the Chaleur was back once again as a full service train between Montreal & Gaspe. This continued until another restructuring of the Maritime service in June 1985 (& the return of the Atlantic) The Ocean became a Montreal-Moncton train (not Halifax) and was combined with the Chaleur between Montreal and Matapedia.

The next big change came with the massive cuts in January 1990. The Ocean was extended back to Halifax but cut to triweekly and began alternating with the Atlantic to provide a six day a week service between Montreal and Halifax. The Chaleur was once again a separate through train to Gaspe but also cut-back to tri-weekly and alternated with the Ocean between Montreal and Matapedia.

By the early ‘90s enough of the former CP Budd fleet had been rebuilt and the Chaleur was re-equipped including a Skyline Dome car. Occasionally Park Dome Observations even ran through to Gaspe.

The last major change came in December 1994 with the discontinuance of the Atlantic. The Ocean began operating six days a week between Montreal and Halifax and on three of those days it was combined with the Chaleur. Essentially the same service we still have today

The Chaleur operates as a separate train during holiday periods and did for most of the summer of 2008.

The Chaleur should operate as a separate train most of the year - peak period especially (i.e. mid-May through mid-October - if not end of October). And I'd love to see the Chaleur leave Montreal earlier than the Ocean, and likewise arriving earlier into Montreal. This would largely be needed in order to maintain a tri-weekly schedule where the train could make a same day train upon arrival at Gaspe. Lot of local traffic from Matapedia to Gaspe - many taking a roomette. I remember when the Chaleur was gearing up for extra sleepers in 2008, but then much of this was cancelled when a bridge was washed out and the Chaleur even turned into an all-coach train at one time! VIA should have a surplus of Park Cars. It would be interesting if VIA could offer a special class of "Touring Class" out of the Park Car when an expanded sleeping car consist exists and a full diner is also assigned. The "Touring Class" sleepers could be located behind the Diner and regular sleepers in between the diner and dome car. However, not sure if this would work, as many coach passengers take their meals in the full service diner when it operates and the Skyline Dome is just a "service/cafe" car. However, Touring Class and regular sleepers are often next to each other on the Ocean! It would just establish a "Touring Class" on the Chaleur with prepaid meals for "Touring Class" passengers etc. in addition to exclusive access to the Park Car, and bedrooms in the Park Car. With some Chateau cars being overhauled to offer a "deluxe double bedroom car" - per Oct 2009 issue of trains - one has to wonder if Manor cars will be returning to the Montreal-Gaspe Train (Chaleur).

Great information on what i like to refer to as My Gaspe Train! I hope you noticed my post in another in another byline here. Thank you very much! I will try and come with more info on this if I can...

NS VIA FAN wrote:

marquisofmississauga wrote: The CN timetables of that era didn't mention the existence of the parlour seats in the listing of Equipment. Even though this was an RDC-2, the timetables show that no checked baggage was carried. It's interesting to note that in the mid-1960s in addition to the daily RDC service on this route there was also a daily ex. Sunday mixed train. I'm missing the summer 1967 timetable, so I can't say for sure when through train service started that year, but the RDCs ran until at least the change of time in April.

Through Train To Gaspe Inaugrated May 31 - June 1, 1967. Here's the Timetable:

chaleur 001.jpg

The Chaleur name first appears in CN’s summer 1964 timetable replacing the Advance Ocean Limited between Montreal and Campbellton then again in the winter 1964/65 timetable for the holidays. But by summer 1965 it was now a permanent year-round train.

In June 1967, Canada’s Centennial Year, the Chaleur gained a Gaspe section with through coaches, sleepers, meal & lounge cars between Matapedia and Gaspe. Prior to that, Gaspe passengers changed at Matapedia to RDC Railiners or conventional trains running between Campbellton and Gaspe.

The Chaleur was extended to Moncton in October 1967 and lasted until January 1970 *** when it was discontinued and the through cars to Gaspe were now on the Scotian eastbound from Montreal to Matapedia and on the Ocean westbound. The through cars lasted until the fall of 1979. During this period the service transitioned from CN to VIA.

(***except in summer 1968 when the Chaleur went direct to Gaspe and the Matapedia-Campbellton-Moncton section was replaced by the Cabot)

The Chaleur did return as a separate Montreal - Gaspe train for the Summers of 1970 ‘71 ‘72 ‘73 & ‘74 and even carried a Skyview (x Milwaukee Skytop) sleeper observation for a couple of seasons.

On October 28, 1979 VIA restructured the Montreal <> Maritime services and the through cars to Gaspe were gone and replaced by a connecting service at Matapedia with either an RDC or conventional train depending on the season. VIA did offer a through Montreal-Gaspe full service coach & sleeping car train during Christmas 1979 ‘80 ‘81 & ‘82.

Then in May 1983 the Chaleur was back once again as a full service train between Montreal & Gaspe. This continued until another restructuring of the Maritime service in June 1985 (& the return of the Atlantic) The Ocean became a Montreal-Moncton train (not Halifax) and was combined with the Chaleur between Montreal and Matapedia.

The next big change came with the massive cuts in January 1990. The Ocean was extended back to Halifax but cut to triweekly and began alternating with the Atlantic to provide a six day a week service between Montreal and Halifax. The Chaleur was once again a separate through train to Gaspe but also cut-back to tri-weekly and alternated with the Ocean between Montreal and Matapedia.

By the early ‘90s enough of the former CP Budd fleet had been rebuilt and the Chaleur was re-equipped including a Skyline Dome car. Occasionally Park Dome Observations even ran through to Gaspe.

The last major change came in December 1994 with the discontinuance of the Atlantic. The Ocean began operating six days a week between Montreal and Halifax and on three of those days it was combined with the Chaleur. Essentially the same service we still have today

The Chaleur operates as a separate train during holiday periods and did for most of the summer of 2008.

It was too bad that the Chaleur didn't have a chance to operate more as a separate train during peak season during 2008. It was largely cut short due to the bridge wash out! I am all for making this train separate from that of the Ocean.

The operation of the Chaleur separate from the Ocean still had problems. At least one departure from Montreal was cancelled last season due to a shortage of engineers. The Chaleur's passengers were treated to an overnight bus trip for the entire run. I was hoping to read an explanation as to why the Chaleur couldn't be combined with the Ocean in the normal way, but if it was ever explained I wasn't aware of it.

Several weeks ago there was a report on another forum that VIA had given the union the required 90-day notice of abolishing the position of chef on the train formerly known as the Chaleur. This news has made it to the popular press: the 9 Sept. issue of le Soleil. If this article is run through one of the on-line translation services the name of the train translates as "The Heat." The article implies that passengers may be able to use the dining car of the Ocean on the portion of the route where the train is combined. From my experiences and observations, if the two sections are marshalled as they have been lately, that is not possible. There is also a reference to the frequent short-turning of the train in New Carlisle. It also says the name of the train was changed in June. In fact the name of the train was dropped and it is now known simply as train #16 and 17.

http://tinyurl.com/m9zrfs

One complaint I had about the Chaleur is that it could certainly off passengers "to Gaspe" an early lunch onboard (i.e. sit down service in the Skyline Car or Diner). Instead on my trips aboard this train I opted for a pre-packaged sandwich onboard or just a late lunch in Gaspe. Heading back to Montreal, looks like there would be no sitdown dinner for those on the Gaspe-Montreal train. As mentioned, using the dining car aboard the Ocean would not only be impractical due to the equipment used, but also probably bordering on "overbudening" the dining staff and diner.

VIA had wanted to convert both the Ocean and Chaleur (sorry it will still be the old name for me) to a Reanaissance based train, but then not enough Renaissance cars were completed to outfit the Chaleur. Plus the Skyline Dome car on the Chaleur really makes this train "worth it" if you ride all the way out to Gaspe. Of my five or so trips on this train since 2006, luckily I've never been short-turned at New Carlisle.

I would hate to see the "chef" position removed from the Chaleur and a sitdown hot meal service not offered. This train runs quite well as is, they just need to make sure it makes it all the way to Gaspe and back more often! I always liked this train when the Dining Car and Skyline Car operated. However, even when just the Skyline Car doubled as the "diner" one would hardly know the difference in quality of food. If anything VIA I think has an opportunity to expand food service on this train, rather than cut it. Even upon departure out of Gaspe to Montreal, they could offer a "late lunch" aboard. Course if it ever operated completely as a seperate train from the Ocean altogether, it could even take on a slightly different schedule.

Does anyone know if the full service Diner operated on the Chaleur (or train #15 and #16) this season, or if it was cutback to just the Skyline Dome Car? I would think the Canadian is hard pressed for diners these days!

The Chaleur has always been a surprise to me every time I've ridden it. I met a lot of locals who used this train "out on the penninsula" in order to tend to work in Montreal. I then learned that like every station stop along this route is staffed? And of course at the time of departure from Gaspe or Montreal, the sleepers were said to have been sold out - or would eventually be sold out over sections of the entire route. On another trip, three coaches were in operation, as there was a large school trip boarding out along the penninsula part of the trip. We arrived once into Gaspe at least 1.5 hours late, but the VIA crew had the train turned and ready to go for an on-time departure from Gaspe back to Montreal.

If the train operated separately from the Ocean, the "turning at New Carlisle would likely be avoided, and VIA could potentially tighten up the westward journey, so as to drop the padding it has at Matapedia to be hooked onto the Ocean.

For anyone who hasn't taken a trip on the Montreal-Gaspe train and back, it is a "must" as it's scenery along the coastal sections out on the penninsula is fantastic!

Also, I read an article that speculated the government was again looking to "sell" or privatize VIA. It saw it as a way to potentially use the cash from the sale to plug a shortfall in the government's finances. It went on to say that "Rocky Mountaineer" would likely try to get its hands on the VIA western routes and that the Jasper-Prince Rupert train was once again potentially on the chopping block. So there seems to be some rumblings as to VIA's future, despite the renovation plans on various cars, locomotives and such.

VIA is nothing more than a skeletal network of what it was. I would hate to see even more service cut or routes cut.