VIA's Panorama

There was a question about VIA’s Panorama over at the Amtrak forum:

The Panorama operated with leased Amtrak “Superliners” between Winnipeg and Edmonton from September to December 1, 1984 and January 1 to Easter 1985. Consist included an F40, Baggage/Coach, Coach, Diner and Sleeper.

The “original” Panorama was launched in the mid ‘60s and replaced the old Continental Limited as the running mate of the Super Continental between Montreal/Toronto and Vancouver. By the late ‘60s there were two separate Panoramas: Montreal/Toronto to Winnipeg and Winnipeg to Vancouver. Through cars operated in the peak season only. The Panorama name disappeared with the Jan. 7, 1970 timetable.

In November 1981 the Super Continental was discontinued on CN between Winnipeg, Edmonton and Vancouver and replaced by daytime trains operating: Winnipeg to Regina (on CP) and on to Saskatoon. And Saskatoon to Edmonton. There was no passenger service on CN between Winnipeg (Portage la Prairie) and Edmonton via Melville (route of today’s Canadian) or between Jasper (Red Pass Jct) and Vancouver. The Skeena (from Prince Rupert) was extended from Jasper to Edmonton.

June 3, 1984: The “new” Panorama was introduced between Winnipeg and Edmonton. Returning passenger service to the CN line via Melville and replacing the daytime train via Regina. It also replaced the Skeena between Edmonton and Prince Rupert. Basically a through Winnipeg to Prince Rupert train (tri-weekly west of Edmonton)

June 1, 1985: The Super Continental was relaunched. Replacing the Panorama between Winnipeg and Jasper and extended through to Vancouver (returning passenger service to CN between Red Pass Jct. and Vancouver) The Skeena name returned as a through Edmonton to Prince Rupert train attached to the Super Continental between Edmonton and Jasper tri-weekly.

The Canadian replaced the Super Continental on the CN route in 1990

I'm not certain to what extent the Moderator is prepared to entertain discussion of a train that was part of the '60's CN's passenger serivce initiative, but I was fortunate to have had the opportunity to ride the Panorama Saskatoon-Vancouver during June 1965.

The intended trip was Winnipeg-Vancouver, but owing to a tardy GN Winnipeg Ltd, had to do a "catch up" aboard the "Dome Car of the Sky", or best known as an Air Canada Vickers Viscount. These turboprop aircraft had some of the largest windows of any model and it likely did not fly higher than FL16 (Flight Level 16 or 16000ft), so plenty of Prairie View.

The daylight schedule Jasper-Vancouver was a plus. Otherwise the trains consist was a collection of second hand US equipment redecorated in what was considered "avant' interiors at that time; today, they would simply be called 'garish' or "gaudy'.

But that was then.

Thanks for your interesting in-sight. I concur: the Viscount was the “Dome Car of the Sky” along with it’s big brother, the Vickers Vanguard.

And knowing your affection for the Milwaukee Road, both the Super Continental and Panorama used the xMILW “Superdomes” (CN Sceneramics) and the Skeena used the “Honorary Dome” the xMILW “Skytops” (CN Skyviews)

And to keep it OT, the Sceneramics lasted into the VIA era.

Thanks!!!!!!!!! For the info would anyone have Photos of the VIA Superliner set or know of a place that does?

John

As I recall, Canadian Law requires that alcohol, unless served as part of a Dinner, can only be served in an enclosed area not requiring any person under age or otherwise not wishing to acknowledge these "sinful' activities, to walk through such. This is why the CN when refurbishing cars for their '60's passenger initiative had these dimly lit, claustrophobic, areas in their Lounge cars for liquor service.

Add to that the smoking and you really had one "Black hole of Calcutta" environment.

Has the law changed so that VIA is able to serve liquor in any area of, say, a "--Park" obs lounge?

Gilbert B Norman wrote:As I recall, Canadian Law requires that alcohol, unless served as part of a Dinner, can only be served in an enclosed area not requiring any person under age or otherwise not wishing to acknowledge these "sinful' activities, to walk through such. This is why the CN when refurbishing cars for their '60's passenger initiative had these dimly lit, claustrophobic, areas in their Lounge cars for liquor service.

Add to that the smoking and you really had one "Black hole of Calcutta" environment.

Has the law changed so that VIA is able to serve liquor in any area of, say, a "--Park" obs lounge?

Liquor can be sold in the Park Dome/Lounge Car as well as the Diner for dining. And I believe the Skyline Dome cars also serve liquor. From what I was told, VIA just has to abide by what ever liquor laws are in place for said region the train is in.

No smoking aboard VIA trains, and retention toilets have now been installed on these 1950s era passenger cars from the ex-CP stainless steel Budd fleet.

The website known as "Train Orders" under its "Canadian Section" has a lot of photos and history on the Western Canadian trains from the 1970's to present. There are pictures there of the Superliner train. However, it should be noted Train Orders is a separate forum from this site and largely has paid membership to access the site, although I think you can log on as a guest - as permitted etc.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:As I recall, Canadian Law requires that alcohol, unless served as part of a Dinner, can only be served in an enclosed area not requiring any person under age or otherwise not wishing to acknowledge these "sinful' activities, to walk through such.........Has the law changed so that VIA is able to serve liquor in any area of, say, a "--Park" obs lounge?

I believe liquor sales are pretty well wide open now.

There has never been a separate bar car or enclosed area in the LRC equipment. Food and beverage service has always been at your seat from an attendant with a trolley “airline style” on LRC trains In the corridor. It’s probably been like this for 25+ years now since the LRCs were first introduced in the early 80s.

There was and still could be restrictions on day, and time of day when liquor can be sold. Ontario once required you to purchase a “two course” meal with liquor on Sunday……so you just bought a “cheese AND crackers” pack from the attendant to go along with your beer!

Corridor Comfort (Coach) Class Menu.....Beer $5.00:

http://www.viarail.ca/menu_repas/corr.html

You all are teaching me something new about 60s VIA equipment , I had no idea that VIA operated superliners that far back the only thing I remember is the occasional superliners in the Internationals consist, which was a favorite for Amtrak and VIA crews on that route. as for Liquor sales there offered on all trips in the corridor airplane style as NS VIA fan has said, I never knew what there prices were until now, for the last few years Ive always traveled VIA1 (first class) meals are included and drinks are free and they keep them coming ! VIA rail has had me stumble of there corridor trains a few times ! I cant stand the fact that up here I have to Literally FIND a Liquor or Beer store. Unlike in the US where alcohol is readily available anywhere. Trying to find one open after 10 pm is another dilemma in itself. I thank VIA rail for the "unlimited open bar" approach for VIA1 travelers as soon as they see me ( as Im now a regular) they keep the drinks coming .

Just to be clear - the Superliners operated on some of the Western Canadian Rail Routes during the late 1980's - not the 1960's. It was right around the time when Amtrak was going to place its Superliner II order and I think they were looking to have VIA tack on order with Amtrak. But VIA decided to rebuild and keep its current fleet of ex-CP stainless steel Budd equipment instead of buying new - in the wake of massive passenger rail route cuts in the early 1990s. Smart move by VIA in my opinion.