16th Street Connector

I was informed of an existing link between 30th Street's lower level and the former Reading lines by a member who goes by the handle of "Gruntled", on this thread over on the NJT forum. It was described thus:

Gruntled wrote:Diesels can go from 30th street—lower level. Then at North Philly, hang a left via the 16th Street connector to the former Reading lines. On to Wayne Jct., etc.

Does this connection still exist, and if so, what condition is it in? Basically, could trains run on it tomorrow, if need be (to exaggerate slightly)...? And of course, the bigger question is why it wasn't used to retain SEPTA diesel service of the past.

Yes, this connection still exists and is used daily by CSX and NS. It actually runs from ZOO interlocking on the NEC through Fairmount Park to the Ex-Reading just west of the Columbia Avenue bridge over the Schuykill River. From there it runs along the west bank of the river to Falls Junction, crosses the river on the south (west) leg of a wye at Falls and continues east to Wayne Junction. There are two connections at Wayne, one which rises out of the low grade along Septa's Roberts Yard and the second which is the current CSX line to Newtown Junction and north. This connection serves traffic coming off of the old PRR "High Line" and was actually utilized during Septa's Railworks projects for a couple daily push-pull roundtrips to/from West Trenton and Doylestown using leased NJT U34CH's.

You're talking about two different things.

Irish is speaking of the track (don't know it's official name offhand) that connects the NEC near North Philadelphia with the SEPTA Norristown Branch just north of 16th Street Junction (which is where the Norristown Branch leaves the ex-Reading main). It's easy to spot as you're passing through on a Reading-side SEPTA train.

There are some very important constraints on this track. First of all, it connects north of 16th Street, so one would have to make a backup move into 16th Street in order to access routes to Wayne Junction, Jenkintown, and beyond (e.g. Newtown, Bethlehem). Second, it's not intended for routine use--it's fairly steep and sharply curved, but my understanding is that a passenger train could operate on it in a pinch. Third, any routine use of it would likely add to congestion on the NEC between Zoo and North Philadelphia, so Amtrak would not be very supportive at all.

Glenn K is speaking of the portion of the NS Harrisburg Line just north of Zoo. It was used by the SEPTA detour trains during the 1993-94 railroad shutdown, but since then, Amtrak has rationalized the plant at Zoo and removed the connection between that track and any of Amtrak's tracks. The only way to access that connection is from the High Line, which is why the Reading excursion train sponsored by DVARP a coupla years ago had to back up from 30th Street to Phil and then go back north on the High Line.

Feel free to pass this on to the other forum.

glennk419 wrote:Yes, this connection still exists and is used daily by CSX and NS. It actually runs from ZOO interlocking on the NEC through Fairmount Park to the Ex-Reading just west of the Columbia Avenue bridge over the Schuykill River. From there it runs along the west bank of the river to Falls Junction, crosses the river on the south (west) leg of a wye at Falls and continues east to Wayne Junction. There are two connections at Wayne, one which rises out of the low grade along Septa's Roberts Yard and the second which is the current CSX line to Newtown Junction and north. This connection serves traffic coming off of the old PRR "High Line" and was actually utilized during Septa's Railworks projects for a couple daily push-pull roundtrips to/from West Trenton and Doylestown using leased NJT U34CH's.

The connection from downstairs at 30th Street to the Reading has been removed; hence the shopping trips to Reading have to back down to Philly Tower and reverse direction to run over the West Philadelphia High Line to get onto the Reading at Fairmount Park.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/587 ... 6763QxxZSV

http://community.webshots.com/photo/587 ... 7042CLuIfO

http://community.webshots.com/photo/587 ... 7249mCuLBd

http://community.webshots.com/photo/587 ... 7593Gbstju

http://community.webshots.com/photo/587 ... 7809PxHcnR

These photos are listed in the order photographed.

The 16th Street Connector connects the PRR with the RDG at North Philly. When travelling east from Zoo (and 30th Street), the connector veers off to the left west of North Philly station and joins the Reading where the branch to Norristown diverges north of North Broad.

glennk419 is talking about the Junction Railroad. The access to this from 30th Street was severed in 2000 (i think).
I can post a bit about the history if anyone's interested.

The name of the 16th Street Connector is the Swampoodle Connector.. (Follow the link and read about the R4).
It's been there since at least 1935.

My apologies, guys. It must have been too early this morning when I replied.

What condition is the Swampoodle Connector in? The link provided above claims that it was "planned" but never executed. Are there tracks on it now?

Also, interesting about the Junction Railroad. Seems like there are loads of cheaper alternatives to "SVM" construction when it comes to restoring former diesel RRD service.

There are at least two "Swampoodle Connectors" that I've read on web sites. One is between the southbound Reading Norristown line and the southbound NEC line just to the west of the PRR Chestnut Hill line. The other is a proposed connection from the PRR Chestnut Hill line to the Reading Norristown line near the Allegheny Station, to allow the Chestnut Hill line to run down the Reading trunk to Market East. It can be confusing because the two are very different even though they are in the same area.

The one referenced in the link above is the latter one. It doesn't exist currently. I'm not sure what AlexC is referring to that has existed since 1935, but maybe it's the former one?

The connection from 30th St lower level to the Reading line is the "Belmont Branch" I believe.

Getting back to the Swampoodle connection, if you were to run a train from West Trenton to 30th Street without going through the CC tunnel, you would first come down the Reading trunk. Then you'd have to reverse and go the wrong way on the SB Reading Norristown branch to get to the connector. You'd have to pass the connector, manually throw the switch, and go forward again up a steep and sharp curve to the NEC. From there, you can get to 30th Street Station.

The return trip is even worse. You would have to run the wrong way on track 4 from the Zoo interlocking, or make a couple of reverse moves at North Philadelphia interlocking, to access the Swampoodle connector. Then you go down the connector itself to the Norristown line, throw the manual switch, and run backwards to the interlocking at North Broad station, and then finally go forwards northbound after crossing two or three tracks.

AlexC wrote:The name of the 16th Street Connector is the Swampoodle Connector.. (Follow the link and read about the R4).
It's been there since at least 1935.

That is not correct.

The Swampoodle Connection has not been built. It would be just slightly north of 16th Street Junction on the Norristown Branch. Right there, you'll see that the Norristown and Chestnut Hill West lines run parallel to each other and just a few hundred yards apart. The Swampoodle Connection would tie the Chestnut Hill West into the ex-Reading side of the system, via the Norristown line and 16th Street.

It has nothing to do with the NEC main other than keeping Chestnut Hill trains off it. Besides reducing SEPTA trackage payments to Amtrak and preventing Amtrak-caused delays to Chestnut Hill trains, the connection would better balance the number of trains operated on the ex-Reading and ex-PRR sides of the system.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize there were two.

The connection I'm referring to is roughly centered on the map linked here.

And here's an arial photo of the area.

I think this is the connection originally mentioned in this thread.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:
That is not correct.

The Swampoodle Connection has not been built. It would be just slightly north of 16th Street Junction on the Norristown Branch. Right there, you'll see that the Norristown and Chestnut Hill West lines run parallel to each other and just a few hundred yards apart. The Swampoodle Connection would tie the Chestnut Hill West into the ex-Reading side of the system, via the Norristown line and 16th Street.

It has nothing to do with the NEC main other than keeping Chestnut Hill trains off it. Besides reducing SEPTA trackage payments to Amtrak and preventing Amtrak-caused delays to Chestnut Hill trains, the connection would better balance the number of trains operated on the ex-Reading and ex-PRR sides of the system.

I remember reading about that in Gerry Williams book about SEPTA - he thought it was a very good idea also.
So why on earth doesn't SEPTA pursue this connection - it seemed rather doable, and most importantly for SEPTA, at a low cost.

Here is a closer aerial photo of how close the R6 and R8 lines run. Other aerial photos.

Sir Ray wrote:I remember reading about that in Gerry Williams book about SEPTA - he thought it was a very good idea also.
So why on earth doesn't SEPTA pursue this connection - it seemed rather doable, and most importantly for SEPTA, at a low cost.

Beats the stuffing out of me. I imagine the City would have a veto if it didn't like the project for one reason or another. But the land is vacant, IIRC.