Just Suppose...

Somebody commented the other day at the Maine Eastern inaugural run, how grand it would be to see the Swedish steam locomotive and cars of the Belfast & Moosehead Lake RR come down and run a couple of trips over the newly rehabbed Rockland Branch. Since there's a turntable at one end and a wye at the other, it would seem to be a natural location. The track is good and the route is scenic. Tell me it wouldn't sell a few tickets! Who do we needle to make it happen?

Not gone happen, the Swedish train does not comply with FRA regulations and can only be used on its home railroad, under waivers. I believe the Belfast and Moosehead is not a common carrier, and does not interchange.

We should have know that "Mr. Cold Water" would be the first to respond!

We had been lead to understand that the locomotive in question has been upgraded to FRA standards for its current operating session. Yes or no?

Anything positive to say (about anything)?

It can not be upfraded to FRA standards unless American grab irons, pilot American headlight etc are installed, so no its not FRA compliant, they may have a FRA waiver to operate on their property.

Hello all,
First of all, I would like to say from a railfan's point of view that it would be neat to see the 1149 and consist run the Rockland branch and stop at some of the towns along the way. It would be a good draw for the tourists and the local people, too. However, the work involved in making such a move would take months of planning and when details such as insurance, rates for moving the equipment,ect. were worked out, then marketing such a trip to generate ticket sales to cover costs involved, it would be a lot of work for someone to do. The other thing to consider is all the extra milage and wear and tear on equipment that is between 40 and 90 years old. The equipment would accumulate 150 miles betweem Burnham and Rockland and that's just one way. That's equivilent to about 20 regular trips on its home rails! Oh yes, don't forget to provide coal and watering facilities, otherwise you're not going far. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the 1149 go off line for a trip like this, but, in my opinion, the negatives outweigh the positives.
One other thing I want to touch on is the compliance with the FRA. The boiler and most of the running gear were always compliant with the FRA. The engine did not have pilot steps with handgrabs when it came from Sweden. I added them 5 years ago. The remaining handgrabs were OK. The electric headlight uses a 300 watt bulb just like the US. By the way, it is powered by a Pyle National dynamo that was on the engine when it came from Sweden. The pilot that is on the engine also meets spec. Nowhere in the code book does it say that the pilot must extend across both rails. There are some items that did have to have waivers, but to say "the engine does not comply with the FRA" is not true.
LF

PART 229--RAILROAD LOCOMOTIVE SAFETY STANDARDS--Table of Subpart C--Safety Requirements

Sec. 229.123 Pilots, snowplows, end plates.

After January 1, 1981, each lead locomotive shall be equipped with
an end plate that extends across both rails, a pilot, or a snowplow. The
minimum clearance above the rail of the pilot, snowplow or end plate
shall be 3 inches, and the maximum clearance 6 inches.

btw your waivers are for home rail only not for interchange.

Better yet, why not the Susie-Q 142 2-8-0 that made a number of runs in Vermont 5 or 6 years ago? If they could do that in Vermont, why could they not do that in Maine?

How about the 0-6-0 from North Conway, if that locomotive ever passes the FRA test?

To Dutch railnut,
Steam locomotive pilots, Part 230.110. (a)General provisions, pilots shall be securely attached, properly braced and maintained in a safe and suitable condition for service. (b) Minimum and maximum clearance. The minimum clearance of pilot above the rail shall be 3 inches and the maximum clearance shall be 6 inches measured on tangent, level track.
The rule that you're quoting is for diesel locomotives, not steam.
LF

the rule I quoted is for ALL locomotives. if not call FRA see what they say.
the 229 rules are not specific to what, but to all locomotives.
The rules for steam locomotives only modify certain other rules.

PART 229--RAILROAD LOCOMOTIVE SAFETY STANDARDS--Table of Contents

Subpart A--General

Sec. 229.3 Applicability.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (e) of this
section, this part applies to all standard gage railroads.
(b) This part does not apply to:
(1) A railroad that operates only on track inside an installation
which is not part of the general railroad system of transportation; or
(2) Rapid transit operations in an urban area that are not connected
with the general railroad system of transportation.
(c) Paragraphs (a) and (b) of Sec. 229.125 do not apply to Tier II
passenger equipment as defined in Sec. 238.5 of this chapter (i.e.,
passenger equipment operating at speeds exceeding 125 mph but not
exceeding 150 mph).
(d) On or after November 8, 1999, paragraphs (a)(1) and (b)(1) of
Sec. 229.141 do not apply to ``passenger equipment'' as defined in
Sec. 238.5 of this chapter, unless such equipment is excluded from the
requirements of Secs. 238.203 through 238.219, and Sec. 238.223 of this
chapter by operation of Sec. 238.201(a)(2) of this chapter.
(e) Paragraphs (a)(2) through (a)(4), and (b)(2) through (b)(4) of
Sec. 229.141 do not apply to ``passenger equipment'' as defined in
Sec. 238.5 of this chapter that is placed in service for the first time
on or after September 8, 2000, unless such equipment is excluded from
the requirements of Secs. 238.203 through 238.219, and Sec. 238.223 of
this chapter by operation of Sec. 238.201(a)(2) of this chapter.

[54 FR 33229, Aug. 14, 1989, as amended at 64 FR 25659, May 12, 1999]

Whoa!

Easy guys.... no need for a "pissing contest" !

All we suggested was, "wouldn't it be neat to see the Swedish steamer on the Rockland Branch?"

All we've heard so far is NEGATIVITY! No wonder nothing ever happens in New England!

Forget we ever brought it up, and go back to your caves!

I'm sorry guys if my comments came off giving anyone the wrong impression. Steam, I didn't mean to come off as sounding negative about your idea about running the Swedish equipment on the Rockland branch. I was just trying to make you aware of what would be involved in setting up such a move.If it were possible I would love to take the 1149 out on high speed iron and see what she'd do. I have also been closely associated with this engine for nearly 10 years and helped retube the boiler and do some of the running gear repairs, so from a mechanical officer's point of view I personally don't feel it's worth the risk of taking this engine over 100 miles from its home rails, through a connecting carrier who probably isn't crazy about hauling it, plus the possibility of a major component failure either enroute or when you get there, unless someone were willing to underwrite this trip, regardless of cost. The idea of going to Rockland isn't a bad idea, but what it boils down to is money and risk. Dutch, you have a valid point, too. The feds may indeed shut down the whole idea down. Eriemike, your idea about bringing in the 142 or the 7470, the 142 would be the better choice. It is better suited for road work. Plus it is only 15 years old and parts are probably easier to get. If you can get the owner of the 142 interested, I'd say go for it.
Good luck
LF

If all things were easy to do, there'd be no payback!

Anxiety magnifies fearsome problems... positive attitudes can accomplish fantastic things (the WW&F operation would be a fine example of that).

A few years back we suggested to the folks at Bedford, Mass. that they contact the Maine Narrow Gauge Museum about getting one of the two footers down to celebrate the original Billerica & Bedford RR's opening in 1978. They went for the idea and all the parties came together and .... voila... Monson #3 ran in the old Bedford trainyard for two days on rails that had been narrowed to 2 foot gauge. Thousands of people got rides in a coach or in the engine cab. Nobody complained about noise, smoke or anything. It was fabulous! But it took some imagination, a positive outlook and some "can do" action on everyone's part.

Same thing a few years back when the folks up in Strong, Maine pulled off a similar operation. They laid several hundred feet of track on the old SR&RL right of way and Monson #3 and an SR&RL caboose came up for the weekend.... voila, a steam train running in Strong for the first time since 1935. It was absolutely fabulous.

Again, it took imagination, lots of hard work by volunteers and a can-do attitude. To meet every suggestion with, "we can't do that" ensures nothing will ever happen.
That's all we're saying. Go easy on the "cold water" and you might be surprised what can be accomplished.

I'm with "Steam" in this. -Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If the state, and the Maine Eastern asked, what would the B&ML say?

And a question about facilities. What is the Rockland roundhouse like inside? Is there a pit? Would the Swedish steamer fit on the turntable there?

This is only a discussion board...

I have followed the different moves of the narrow gage equipment to the different "off line " moves it has made in the past. I agree that it is a positive thing for the communities where the equipment has run.
I don't know how many of you have read Moody's book on the Maine 2 Footers, but as some of you know, the WW&F was building north out of Albion toward Canada and when it reached the B&ML(operated by the MCRR in those days) the politics of the day stopped them. The ROW is still there and used by 4 wheelers. I think it would be cool to bring up one of the Monson engines, some track and re-enact that scene. (One of my fantisies)
One big advantage of the narrow gage equipment is that it can be trucked to wherever it is to be run. When you have to deal with a connecting carrier for a rail movement, you're at their mercy as to when the shipment gets picked up and brought back. Another thing I forgot to mention yesterday is most any steam engine you'll find is going to be on brass bearings. That's another reason why a connecting carrier would either not want to move it, or if they did, charge a premium for doing so.
As far as the turntable in Rockland goes, the 1149 would easily fit on it. It would probably fit in the enginehouse stalls, too. What I meant by facilities was having an efficient way of coaling the engine(a ramp with a front end loader,for instance), a place to store the coal and a good water source. The water source should be tested for PH and mineral content so it could be dealt with ahead of time. There was a pit inside the enginehouse, but it's been so long since I've been there, I can't remember much about it.
LF