BART fare system

Why did the bart subway start off with a card based payment rather than tokens?

I'll venture a guess....

Unlike New York or Philadelphia or Chicago rapid transit systems, which are contained either wholly within municipal boundaries or have limited service to nearby suburbs making a flat fare doable, BART is spread out over several counties and municipalities on both sides of San Francisco Bay. A token implies one paid fare at a preset price. BART and METRO in Washington are in some respects less like traditional rapid tranist and more like commuter trains or interurbans. They adapted a distance and time of day driven fare structure making it "fairer" to all riders concerned, short distance and long distance alike.

orangeline wrote:They adapted a distance and time of day driven fare structure

No time-of-day fares on BART.

timz:

I rode BART fairly extensively about 2-3 years ago and I was sure that rush hour fares were higher than at "normal times". But I will defer to you and admit I mis-stated that part.

http://www.bart.gov/docs/BART010106.pdf

No time of day discount - just senior citizen, kids, and school pupils.

They note an excursion fare of $4.65 if you enter and exit the same station within 3 hours. But if you want to ride the whole system, it seems like it would take you about six. So is there a hard limit of three hours, or is there a penalty if you don't get out of the system before three? Do they just charge you the maximum fare from that station?

If you're trying to ride the system, all you have to do is go out the faregate after 2 hr 59 minutes, and immediately re-enter to restart the 3-hour clock. If you start at MacArthur-19th-12th I suppose you could cover the system for $2.80, tho I haven't checked the timetables to confirm.

If you can't do it for $2.80, you certainly can do it for $4.20.

Everyone: The BART fare system was designed by I believe Cubic-Western Data and is very similar to that used by Washington's Metro. BART fares are determined by distance traveled but have no PEAK or OFF-PEAK designation. I spent time in SF in late 2000 and I covered the entire BART system. As was mentioned,there is a 3-hour limit on their tickets to exit after entry to the system-what I did was purchase a MUNI weekly pass-which allows BART rides between City of SF stations Embarcadero thru Balboa Park I recall. What I used to do was enter at a station downtown and exit at a different station from the one of entry watching that 3-hour limit. Another thing that you can do is purchase a minimum-fare ticket between two downtown SF stations-say Embarcadero and any other Market Street BART station like Civic Center and than go ride around for three hours-if you get off at the same station the excursion fare ride is charged. If I traveled to another destination if I could I would ride a branch to cover the system. I traveled to Oakland-Lake Merritt one day and explored downtown Oakland to boot. On my trip E I covered the Richmond Line and upon return I covered the Fremont line. As mentioned just watch that 3-hour limit and a cheaper alternative to the excursion ride is available by just entering and exiting at different stations. MACTRAXX

cpontani wrote:They note an excursion fare of $4.65 if you enter and exit the same station within 3 hours. But if you want to ride the whole system, it seems like it would take you about six. So is there a hard limit of three hours, or is there a penalty if you don't get out of the system before three? Do they just charge you the maximum fare from that station?

as explained by BART staff, if you go over the 3-hour limit, the faregate will not open on exit and will read "see station agent," at which point you have to talk to the station agent and explain why exactly you've been inside bart for more than 3 hours.

which is why what you do is (still under the 3-hour limit) exit one station beyond the one from which you entered (or just some other station) and then re-enter. it's also a lot cheaper that way – i dunno who came up with the whole "excursion fare" idea in the first place.

"lensovet"
which is why what you do is (still under the 3-hour limit) exit one station beyond the one from which you entered (or just some other station) and then re-enter. it's also a lot cheaper that way – i dunno who came up with the whole "excursion fare" idea in the first place.

The who is really irrelevant. The why the excursion fare exists is what is important. The purpose of the excursion fare is to induce use of the system by tourists and visitors to attractions in the bay area.

Washington’s metrorail has a similar excursion fare, WMATA's excursion fare is $6.50 and is good for unlimited rides after 9:30 AM weekdays and all day on weekends, holidays and selected Monday holidays.

All of WMATA metrorail farecards have time limit that will flag you at the exit gate if you exceed that limit. I think it's in the range of 3 hours.

Sand Box John wrote:"lensovet"
which is why what you do is (still under the 3-hour limit) exit one station beyond the one from which you entered (or just some other station) and then re-enter. it's also a lot cheaper that way – i dunno who came up with the whole "excursion fare" idea in the first place.

The who is really irrelevant. The why the excursion fare exists is what is important. The purpose of the excursion fare is to induce use of the system by tourists and visitors to attractions in the bay area.

Washington’s metrorail has a similar excursion fare, WMATA's excursion fare is $6.50 and is good for unlimited rides after 9:30 AM weekdays and all day on weekends, holidays and selected Monday holidays.

All of WMATA metrorail farecards have time limit that will flag you at the exit gate if you exceed that limit. I think it's in the range of 3 hours.

note that the excursion fare is NOT a day pass. it simply dictates the following: when you exit in the same station as you entered, you'll get charged $4.65 (or whatever the fare is). the only "excursion" you'll have is an excursion of the BART system, since once you exit at a different station, the excursion "fare" doesn't apply.

so this has nothing to do with tourism, unless you're talking about tourists simply checking out bart...in which case we call it railfanning

"lensovet"
note that the excursion fare is NOT a day pass. it simply dictates the following: when you exit in the same station as you entered, you'll get charged $4.65 (or whatever the fare is). the only "excursion" you'll have is an excursion of the BART system, since once you exit at a different station, the excursion "fare" doesn't apply.

so this has nothing to do with tourism, unless you're talking about tourists simply checking out bart...in which case we call it rail fanning.

I stand corrected. It would seem to me that the phrase 'excursion fare' is not the correct description that should be used in this context.