BNSF vs. UP?

Greetings All,

New guy here, not responsible if you wet yourself laughing at me. I'm looking at hiring on in UP Train Service in Portland, OR or BNSF Conductor Trainee in Vancouver, WA. Can anybody recommend one company over the other? I couldn't find anything about this in the archives. I'm familiar with all the pros and cons about the lifestyle but don't know much about either company's way of doing business. I'm especially interested in the long-term aspects, such as retirement and medical coverage.

As a bit of background, I've worked 17 years as an airline mechanic and could tell you which outfits are/were great and from which you should run screaming. As far as which potential employer, the BNSF terminal is very convenient to my house while the UP is halfway across the city. It would be great to avoid commuting hassles, especially being on-call (insert delerious laughter about empty roads in the middle of the night). On the other hand, as an airline employee who formerly had a great career until the advent of a certain CEO, I'd like to avoid being Grinsteined again in the future so the balance might tip in favor of the UP.

Also, do I understand correctly that train crew income tax is based on your residence and not work location? Washington State, my home, has no state income tax while across the river in the People's Republic of Oregon, they gig you for an extra 9%. If I had to pay the Oregon State income tax if based in Portland with the UP, that would tip the scales back to the BNSF in Washington.

Thanks for any help, advice and cheap jokes at my expense.

Karl

Hey Karl,
I work for UP in Portland, and I interviewed multiple times for BNSF. My advice to you is if you can get on with BN, do it. My overall impression of BN is that they treat their employees, physical plant and equipment MUCH better than we do ours. UP isn't a bad gig, but when we cross that drawbridge and start heading up to Seattle, it's a night and day difference. As far as the tax thing, you'll have two sides of that argument. Personally, after seeing the nightmare that is the I-5/205 bridge, I'd rather pay a few extra bucks and keep my sanity. I'm not sure how Vancouver works, but here in Portland you're responsible for covering three major yards, all the industries in between, plus road locals as far north as Longview WA and as far south as Oregon City, OR. It's a lot to digest and they throw it at you all at once. Personally, I'm surprised that they are still hiring for our hub as they are running out of places to put everyone. I don't mind my job but I'd rather be doing it in Green than Yellow. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.

Good Luck!

I can verify what Mr. Steel says re: equipment. We (CNIC) run coal trains for both the BNSF and the UP. The difference between these two sets, both the power and the cars, are amazing! Some of these UP trains, with every fallen flag (D&RGW, Mo-Pac, C&EI) represented in the train, are downright dangerous. You set a minimum on the sick-puppies and they feel like they speed up! The BNSF sets are well maintained and will stop, "on a dime."
When you do a train check (distributed power) on a UP set the built-in time and date feature may be off by months. The BNSF sets, the time and date are accurate almost to the minute. Engine hand-brakes on BN power can be spun with one finger, UP junk feels as though it's maxed-out from the get-go! We've had more than one elbow injury from cranking on these beasts. IMHO, the condition/maintenance of a railroad's equipment speaks volumes as to the general all-around state of their operations.

jg greenwood wrote:I can verify what Mr. Steel says re: equipment. We (CNIC) run coal trains for both the BNSF and the UP. The difference between these two sets, both the power and the cars, are amazing! Some of these UP trains, with every fallen flag (D&RGW, Mo-Pac, C&EI) represented in the train, are downright dangerous. You set a minimum on the sick-puppies and they feel like they speed up! The BNSF sets are well maintained and will stop, "on a dime."
When you do a train check (distributed power) on a UP set the built-in time and date feature may be off by months. The BNSF sets, the time and date are accurate almost to the minute. Engine hand-brakes on BN power can be spun with one finger, UP junk feels as though it's maxed-out from the get-go! We've had more than one elbow injury from cranking on these beasts. IMHO, the condition/maintenance of a railroad's equipment speaks volumes as to the general all-around state of their operations.

That's the Uncle Pete for ya! But they do have well maintained track. I guess they'd rather focus on the quality of the track instead of locomotives. Not that I blame them, as safety comes first! This is just from a railfan's perspective, not an employee's one.

I think getting hired for UP is easier just from what I have seen. BNSF has tougher requirements, like passing tests with 90%, etc. Getting hired with UP was a snap: pass a simple reading test, do good on an interview, get an offer, and then more tests. Heck, I have an offer from UP and no revelant experience what-so-ever. However, my UP offer has me stressed out because they have scheduled my training before they give me the green light on the background/medical, not that I'm worried about anything-- it's just I have to quit my current job FAST without a 100% from UP and during the hiring session they tell you "1 in 10 applicants is disqualified for a mistake on the application." Not bad odds, but when you have to invest so much time and energy into the process and quit your job, it might make you stressed.

anyway just my 2cents.

goodluck!

emd_SD_60 wrote:

jg greenwood wrote:I can verify what Mr. Steel says re: equipment. We (CNIC) run coal trains for both the BNSF and the UP. The difference between these two sets, both the power and the cars, are amazing! Some of these UP trains, with every fallen flag (D&RGW, Mo-Pac, C&EI) represented in the train, are downright dangerous. You set a minimum on the sick-puppies and they feel like they speed up! The BNSF sets are well maintained and will stop, "on a dime."
When you do a train check (distributed power) on a UP set the built-in time and date feature may be off by months. The BNSF sets, the time and date are accurate almost to the minute. Engine hand-brakes on BN power can be spun with one finger, UP junk feels as though it's maxed-out from the get-go! We've had more than one elbow injury from cranking on these beasts. IMHO, the condition/maintenance of a railroad's equipment speaks volumes as to the general all-around state of their operations.

That's the Uncle Pete for ya! But they do have well maintained track. I guess they'd rather focus on the quality of the track instead of locomotives. Not that I blame them, as safety comes first! This is just from a railfan's perspective, not an employee's one.

There's safety involved running 18,000 ton train-sets with the shoes worn down to the metal? There's safety involved by not maintaining their hand-brakes? Oh silly me, I'm forgetting, a railfan's perspective and an employee's perspective are as different as night and day! Get real!

jg greenwood wrote:

emd_SD_60 wrote:

jg greenwood wrote:I can verify what Mr. Steel says re: equipment. We (CNIC) run coal trains for both the BNSF and the UP. The difference between these two sets, both the power and the cars, are amazing! Some of these UP trains, with every fallen flag (D&RGW, Mo-Pac, C&EI) represented in the train, are downright dangerous. You set a minimum on the sick-puppies and they feel like they speed up! The BNSF sets are well maintained and will stop, "on a dime."
When you do a train check (distributed power) on a UP set the built-in time and date feature may be off by months. The BNSF sets, the time and date are accurate almost to the minute. Engine hand-brakes on BN power can be spun with one finger, UP junk feels as though it's maxed-out from the get-go! We've had more than one elbow injury from cranking on these beasts. IMHO, the condition/maintenance of a railroad's equipment speaks volumes as to the general all-around state of their operations.

That's the Uncle Pete for ya! But they do have well maintained track. I guess they'd rather focus on the quality of the track instead of locomotives. Not that I blame them, as safety comes first! This is just from a railfan's perspective, not an employee's one.

There's safety involved running 18,000 ton train-sets with the shoes worn down to the metal? There's safety involved by not maintaining their hand-brakes? Oh silly me, I'm forgetting, a railfan's perspective and an employee's perspective are as different as night and day! Get real!

Maybe I should have stopped right at the maintaining their track bit... I had no business to get into the "safety" part. If I was a railroad employee I would probably get your drift... Maybe Uncle Pete oughta hire more mechanics you think?

Wow-

They sure do have pretty tracks-----but what do brakes shoes have to do with stopping a train?



Nashvillie Newbie

emd_SD_60 wrote:

jg greenwood wrote:

emd_SD_60 wrote:

jg greenwood wrote:I can verify what Mr. Steel says re: equipment. We (CNIC) run coal trains for both the BNSF and the UP. The difference between these two sets, both the power and the cars, are amazing! Some of these UP trains, with every fallen flag (D&RGW, Mo-Pac, C&EI) represented in the train, are downright dangerous. You set a minimum on the sick-puppies and they feel like they speed up! The BNSF sets are well maintained and will stop, "on a dime."
When you do a train check (distributed power) on a UP set the built-in time and date feature may be off by months. The BNSF sets, the time and date are accurate almost to the minute. Engine hand-brakes on BN power can be spun with one finger, UP junk feels as though it's maxed-out from the get-go! We've had more than one elbow injury from cranking on these beasts. IMHO, the condition/maintenance of a railroad's equipment speaks volumes as to the general all-around state of their operations.

That's the Uncle Pete for ya! But they do have well maintained track. I guess they'd rather focus on the quality of the track instead of locomotives. Not that I blame them, as safety comes first! This is just from a railfan's perspective, not an employee's one.

There's safety involved running 18,000 ton train-sets with the shoes worn down to the metal? There's safety involved by not maintaining their hand-brakes? Oh silly me, I'm forgetting, a railfan's perspective and an employee's perspective are as different as night and day! Get real!

Maybe I should have stopped right at the maintaining their track bit... I had no business to get into the "safety" part. If I was a railroad employee I would probably get your drift... Maybe Uncle Pete oughta hire more mechanics you think?

No biggie Chris. You have the best possible excuse; you're young, I only wish I were!

Another thing to consider up here in the Pac Northwest when thinking UP vs BNSF...You'll hear a lot of BN guys talking about system seniority and how you can get bumped by someone from anywhere on their system, then you have to go find a place to work. I believe, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that the old SP&S agreement prohibits that in this service area. If you hire on here at UP and you are the low man, there is a distinct chance that they can "Augment" (force) you to a different terminal in the hub, without putting you up or giving you a per diem. There are a couple of guys here right now who are being forced to The Dalles out of Portland, and a while ago a bunch of guys were forced to Seattle for a few months.

David Telesha wrote:Yeah, the brakie can just drag his feet like the Flinstones car right?

Not too many jobs have three man crews these days. Usually just C&E.

I think I'd lean towards BNSF than UP. As a UP employee, I have been in both units, and the BNSF takes care of thier units by a wider margin than does UP. CN and CP units are a dream, and I have often gone to the second or third motor if we are siting for very long if it is a CN or CP just to sit on the seats. Also the same for the BNSF units.

UP pays me well, and I can say that I am glad to have a job. But from the talks I've had with some guys who have worked with them hand in hand, they treat thier employees far better than does UP. As for your taxes, I maintain my residency in Utah, but work in Nevada, and get the tax benefit of Nevada. As long as your home of record is in WA, you will gain the benfit as well.

Good luck with all you do.

Oh yeah, I love the "great track" on the Caliente Sub. 70 mph track from 502 to 572, Modena to Milford, Utah. However, for the past three months, we have seen the slow orders come from 60 to 50 to 40 to 25 mph and getting slower everyday. I also like how the FRA told the UP that the track between Brigham City and McCammon was going to be FRA Excepted if they don't fix it soon. Amazing how quickly the gangs got out and repaired the track asap.

Not sure where the "great" track you speak of, but we have some issues on the Utah Service Unit. Espcially between Ogden and Green River as well.

Kind regards to everyone.

SteelWheels21 wrote:Another thing to consider up here in the Pac Northwest when thinking UP vs BNSF...You'll hear a lot of BN guys talking about system seniority and how you can get bumped by someone from anywhere on their system, then you have to go find a place to work. I believe, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that the old SP&S agreement prohibits that in this service area. If you hire on here at UP and you are the low man, there is a distinct chance that they can "Augment" (force) you to a different terminal in the hub, without putting you up or giving you a per diem. There are a couple of guys here right now who are being forced to The Dalles out of Portland, and a while ago a bunch of guys were forced to Seattle for a few months.

I happen to work a few miles down the road from Vancouver and our senority is WA OR and Whitefish Montana. If you leave as a trainmen you lose all of it and start new at your new location, vice versa if you come here. For engineers you can leave once and come back or come in once from the "outside" and keep your date but your trainmen date will change as mentioned above. The rest of the system is system wide senority. I am glad its this way because it detours folks coming in from all over the place because believe me they try, we have some sweet jobs.