Just what were "Train Orders"

In the old RR videos and photos you often see towermen lifting up paperwork on a pole to train crews. These were "train orders". Can anyone tell me what they were exactly and why today there are no more ground crews hoisting them up to train crews on poles?

carajul wrote:In the old RR videos and photos you often see towermen lifting up paperwork on a pole to train crews. These were "train orders". Can anyone tell me what they were exactly and why today there are no more ground crews hoisting them up to train crews on poles?

Train orders can be anything from giving a crew permission to operate on sections of track to giving a stop and protect order for malfunctioning crossing protection. Train orders, aka track warrants are still given out on a daily basis. The reason you no longer see train orders get "hooped up" or hung on poles is because they are now transitted by radio or given via landline or cellular telephone.

If you keep your eyes open, it still happens, just hoops aren't used any more (at least on NJT) - quite often, in pretty major stations, form D's (NJT's and Norac's version of a "train order") will be given to trains, instead of having them stop en route or at a station and copy it down. Long Branch station comes to mind quite often, and the station agent will give the form D to the train, or the conductor will come inside and get it.

this also happens in Newark Penn station lot as well, with management or sometimes "runners" running to different tracks to give paperwork to various trains in teh station, and sometimes at Brielle (usuallly going east) tihs happens as well

Before a train can move one inch, the conductor must check for Form D's - by calling the dispatcher when giving the location adn consist, or like in NYP, going into a room and asking an agent, and signing a sheet stating that your train either has no Form D's or the ID of the Form D.

There was a photo in Trains not too long back showing on Amtrak's Keystone Corridor folks on the ground hooping up train orders to the engineer in the engine and to a crewmember in a coach. This was to allow an eastbound train to operate on tracks not signaled for eastbound trains to run east during track work.

Train orders are issued to give a train authuority to occupy a section of railroad either in a manaul block area or the run against the current of traffic on assigned direction tracks, to issue speed restrictions due to MOW work, malfunctioning automatic crossing protection, the pass malfuntioning or stop and stay signals(manual block rules apply where doing this). They can also convey other information to the train crew as the train dispatcher, under rule book authourity, deems needed. They can be transmitted by radio, phone,etc.. or "hung on" at a Block or interlocking station by an operator. When manaully delivered on a hoop, the train orders and any other additional forms would be rolled up neatly, then tied into a piece of string using a double half hitch, then attached to the train order hoop as in picture.



The operator would then either stand trackside and hang the orders on, or some railroads used a mecahnical device so the operator wouldn't be in danger of getting hit by the train. I know all to well,it takes practice to get close enough to hang on orders and not get hit. The operator would either notify the train crew that they had oreders to pick up or we used to have "train order lights" on our signal masts or signal bridges that we would turn on, which displayed a large flashin "O" as well as hanging a yellow metal flag on the outside of the interlocking station to indicate orders were to be delivered. Methods and signaling vary from railroad to railroad, but we usd standard PRR practice and Book of Rules.

Three things: first go to Patchague, LI any weekend or after the LI finishes the track work and watch the towerman hand up orders to eastbound trains. Listen, too, to LIRR radio for verbal train orders.

Second, to fully understand the Timetable and Train Order Operation pick up the book of rules from any railroad prior to 1980 for complete details on how it works. Was totally a fascinating operating mode.

And third, at rail fan shows, etc. look for copies of orders, clearance forms, etc.

After reviewing the several excellent replies I wanted to add to the answers with a description of the "media".

The 19 orders on L&H were a very thin (but tough!) tissue of yellow color and were bound in tablets. The dispatcher would tell you "copy 3", or "copy five". You inserted a hard sheet of metal after the last page, also inserted double side carbon paper. Pencils were used in my time but earlier they used a stylus. So an image of what you wrote was on both sides of each page.

You forked up one each to the head and rear and stuck your copy up on a nail above your desk. If there were five copies, usually the second train got them. Some lines wanted you to send your copy in company mail the next day to the dispatcher.

Just another page of recorded history...

jmchitvt wrote:The 19 orders on L&H were a very thin (but tough!) tissue of yellow color and were bound in tablets. The dispatcher would tell you "copy 3", or "copy five". You inserted a hard sheet of metal after the last page, also inserted double side carbon paper. Pencils were used in my time but earlier they used a stylus. So an image of what you wrote was on both sides of each page.

Yup, same deal with us on the PRSL, but our 19 orders were green as we were under the influence of the PRR. The PRR was always different even though they claimed to be "The Standard Railway of The World". Another thing, when you copied train orders from the dispatcher or when you read them to the train crews onthe phone or radio, you had to spell out evrey engine number, all places, all numbers pertaining of tracks , speed or rules (such as Rule 261,etc). I can still do it today, although it's not the same wtihout the old dispatcher's line or block phone with it's big heavy black bakelite phone and headset. So if read back a 19 order for Engine 2005 at Williamstown Jct, you would say Engine 2005 -T-W-O - N-A-U-G-H-T - N-A-U-G-H-T - F-I-V-E at Williamstown Jct -W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S-T-O-W-N J-C-T and so on. Then after reading it back, the train dispatcher would give you the time it went into effect and you signed the GM's name and at the bottom you signed yours.

19 orders were green onion skin and were addressed to all those concerned and could be hooped up on the fly. 30 orders were yellow onion skin and were so special a train had to stop and the conductor sign for them. Again, rule books will tell you the complete story.
Form A was a "clearence card' which was usually issued at the originating point of a train which gave it permission to leave its terminal and listed the train orders in effect for the train. Form B was, I believe, for reverse movement of a train in a given block or blocks and Form C was for track cars. Not having been exposed to them for so long I am forgettin them all and the details of each.

About 5 years ago I saw hoops (actual round ones) being used to give orders to commuter trains in Santiago, Chile. Well, at least I saw the crew toss a hoop back to the towerman.

I also saw the engineer of my passenger train in Temuco, southern Chile, walk out of the office of the originating station carring the hoop and token (brass bar) that gave us the right to the track as far as the next station. At the next station, I saw that hoop and token still swinging on the hook the crew had hung it on as they pulled into the station.

There was a photo in Trains not too long back showing on Amtrak's Keystone Corridor folks on the ground hooping up train orders to the engineer in the engine and to a crewmember in a coach. This was to allow an eastbound train to operate on tracks not signaled for eastbound trains to run east during track work.

The Harrisburg Line is still paper dispatched with tower and TBS operators wayside. While Form D's can be given out over the radio its easier to hoop them up. My operator friend uses a clipboard because nobody ever showed him how to tie the hoop.

Conrail and NS used Form D and a temporary block station at Lyons PA to accomodate trackwork on the Reading line for several summers. For temporary work, it's cheaper to put up a shed, and assign an operator than to install new bi-directional signals.

It was very helpful setting up for trains. "lBlock op Lyons, you've got two eastbounds coming , 6866 now at Blandon and 2922 at Temple. Hold 8929 now at Alburtis when you see him..."