Sightseer Lounge Withdrawal At Hand?

Considering that first the Joplin and now the Mendon derailment incidents that resulted in overturned cars, I must wonder if Amtrak will be withdrawing Sightseer Lounge cars from the Superliner consists.

One of the Joplin fatalities occurred in such car and reportedly same case at Mendon. Apparently, even though fitted with safety panes, such broke upon impact allowing ballast into the cars resulting in passenger injuries - including fatal.

Both cars apparently will be scrapped; so Amtrak is "down two". Such cars have already been withdrawn from several trains as is. Now that at table food service is limited to "Private Room" passengers and in room "dining" is being encouraged, it would appear that the full length 380XX Diner is more than needed to provide Food & Beverage for the entire train. Snacks and beverages could readily be sold to Coach passengers from one end of such cars. No need for further conversions to 370XX Diner-Lounges that reportedly cost $1M per car now some fifteen years ago.

Amtrak no longer appears to be interested in marketing an "experiential" product; so if such be the case, the Sightseers are simply redundant.

Between that and today's ADA requirements, I suppose a modern single level dome is out of the question, but I always thought the Viewliner dining cars would make for a great lounge variant. Assuming the future is single level, I hope that some sort of lounge car is in the mix.

There is another factor that may come into consideration in the decision. My last long distance Amtrak journey with a Sightseer Lounge was about 3 years ago, Chicago to LA and San Fran area to Chicago. During daylight hours, when not in my sleeper compartment or diner, I spent a lot of time in the Sightseer to watch the scenery. The car was full most of the time. My estimate is that 80 to 90 percent of the other passengers in the Sightseer spent a majority of their time using a personal electronic device, smart phone, tablet or laptop, rarely if at all, looking out the window. The Sightseer Lounge may no longer have the experiential attraction it once did.

Yet again the boo birds are out to remove equipment . But why get rid of a car that is full even if they are using electronic devices. Guess we should never have had these things built when 90% of the occupants were reading books and magazines.

Let’s see what NTSB says.

As I see it, Amtrak might have to buy back and re equip ATSF Hi level coaches to become lounges.

If Amtrak becomes Greyhound, it will begin living on borrowed time.

So you are saying one passenger in each case? How about the other fatalities? Where did they occur? Not in the lounge I assume. So how can you single out one car? Superliner Lounges are spectacular cars offering wonderful views and great atmosphere. It would truly be a great loss to sideline them.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:34 pm So how can you single out one car?

What say we wait and see what either Amtrak does or NTSB mandates.

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:59 pm

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:34 pm So how can you single out one car?

What say we wait and see what either Amtrak does or NTSB mandates.

Sure. The NTSB Chairwoman Jennifer Homendy did mention "swiveling seats".

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:59 pm

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:34 pm So how can you single out one car?

What say we wait and see what either Amtrak does or NTSB mandates.

NTSB will certainly make recommendations to the regulators to mandate. Per NTSB Chair: "We also have concerns about making sure that people are able to survive an accident when it does occur, after a terrible tragedy, particularly those in the railcars. Action needs to be taken so another accident doesn’t occur, another death doesn’t occur, another serious injury doesn’t occur. It’s imperative that we take action." https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/in ... e-injured/

All I can note after reading the comprehensive Railway Age article and my past industry experience. Is that if Warren (or underling) wasn't out at that X-ing with his Weed Whacker, he's going to be on tap (source: several MILW Roadmasters I knew "along the way").

I would think it can quickly be established if driver Barton was using a hand held cell phone or other device with ear pods.

Beyond these comments, I would be delving into speculation. from which Col. Perkowski has requested restraint from so doing.

The AT&ST high levels have a 2nd floor that is about 8 inches lower than Superliners. That is a built in stumbiling location. Lower ceiling height could be a head knocker for tall persons. Both these problems going or coming into cars. Stumbled more than once going from Pacific Parlour to superlner.i

west point wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:12 pm The AT&ST high levels have a 2nd floor that is about 8 inches lower than Superliners. That is a built in stumbiling location. Lower ceiling height could be a head knocker for tall persons. Both these problems going or coming into cars. Stumbled more than once going from Pacific Parlour to superlner.i

Then you’re going to have to convert from Amtraks limited supply of coaches.

Personally, I hope the Sightseer Lounges might pass the post-accident assessment of the NTSB, however, as to the question of passenger survivability when cars are overturned, I suggest a review of the first major derailment on Amtrak, involving the City of New Orleans, in the vicinity of Salem IL on June 10, 1971 with 11 fatalities.

Passenger ejection(s) and intrusion of rail and other track materials were a consequence of the large "picture windows", which had theretofore been a widely promoted feature of intercity passenger service.

Volks, lest we forget that the "Simplified Dining Service" initiative that first saw light during the Bush43 Administration, and when the Gunmen were at the throttle, the plan was to assign "Food Service cars" based upon demand, with one assigned year-round and two during the peak periods. They further were planning to convert all the 380XX Diners to the 370XX Diner Lounge configuration and the 330XX Lounges to a configuration of 33011 (?; I think). That, in the Amtrak tradition, got as far as 37000-37016 (17 cars) and the noted 33011.

Now that Amtrak apparently is no longer providing peak consists but rather allowing demand pricing to handle "crowd control", the need for two Food Service cars in a consist has been minimized, if not eliminated. Accordingly, withdrawal of the Sightseer Lounges would not impact this business plan, if such in fact is the case.

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:27 pm

west point wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:12 pm The AT&ST high levels have a 2nd floor that is about 8 inches lower than Superliners. That is a built in stumbiling location. Lower ceiling height could be a head knocker for tall persons. Both these problems going or coming into cars. Stumbled more than once going from Pacific Parlour to superlner.i

Then you’re going to have to convert from Amtraks limited supply of coaches.

Given that Stadler have an operation in Utah, what about giving them the job of constructing new Sightseers using the coaches they provided Rocky Mountaineer, rather than eroding the Superliner coach fleet which already needs replenishment/replacement, or putting heritage relics into service?