frequentflyer wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:11 pmLooping back onto topic but keeping on the subject of paint schemes: will the new equipment have fluted stainless steel sheathing or will it be painted?electricron wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:14 am How a thread about Siemens Venture rolling stock and Siemens Charger locomotives turned into a conversation about GE and EMD locomotives at Grand Central Station is beyond me, but here it is.Thank you.
Does every thread have to turn into a conversation about what was 50 years ago?
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Siemens to manufacture 83 Airo Intercity Trainsets for Amtrak: Design, Delivery, Acceptance
- Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
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Will like Brightline's and midwest coaches, painted. From what I have read the aluminum fluting is more difficult, and heavier.
I'd like to see ones that end up on the Empire Corridor get the blue and black scheme the late Turbo's had. I always thought that it was a very attractive scheme.
"That sapling that once grew just south of Wassaic may be long gone, and the Harlem Line’s appearance may have changed over the years, but for decades to come, I can count on it continuing to provide me with funny recollections"
I have a gut feeling they'll be mainly blue to match the phase 7 scheme teased on the ALC-42, but time will tell.
I'm curious to see what they'll do with the Cascades scheme since the first ones are heading up my way.
I'm curious to see what they'll do with the Cascades scheme since the first ones are heading up my way.
Here is a thought for discussion.
1. Can we assume that Amtrak will recertify all AM-2s and V-1s to 125 MPH for operation with the new dual mode locos ? With the new Siemens NEC trains certified to at least 125 MAX will keep the NEC fluid and in keeping with C-2035 statements ? The duals will need that new top speed to somewhat keep out of the way of Siemens and the new Acela-2s.
2. For operation of the new dual modes they will also need to be certified to 125 which requires gearing for 125 + 10% 12.5 + 3 -4 overlap. === ~140 MH gearing. I use the P-42 103 MAX as 90 + 9 + 4 = 103 as a template..
2a. That gearing will reduce the tractive effort available on diesel off CAT about ~30%.
3. Those speeds for the short distances that can allow 125 at present should be enough to allow scheduling to tighten 10 - 15 minutes NYP <> WASH.
4. If those dual modes continue past WASH with that 140 gearing how much slower accelerations will the Silvers, Crescent and Cardinal have ? Will that also slow them on grades except for Silvers and Palmetto.? If the Roanoke train just has one loco as it does now I for see a much slower climb especially to ROA.
5. Saving time with the loco change at WASH would seem IMO to actually slow these trains total time down ?
6. This may also apply to the Vermonter and its lack of change at New Haven.
7. The use of Duals "may" not be a problem for NECs to Richmond, Norfolk, Newport News. However leaving Main Street station going up the hill ???
EDIT. At least west coast locos are to be straight diesel for immediate future so probably the 103 certification ?
1. Can we assume that Amtrak will recertify all AM-2s and V-1s to 125 MPH for operation with the new dual mode locos ? With the new Siemens NEC trains certified to at least 125 MAX will keep the NEC fluid and in keeping with C-2035 statements ? The duals will need that new top speed to somewhat keep out of the way of Siemens and the new Acela-2s.
2. For operation of the new dual modes they will also need to be certified to 125 which requires gearing for 125 + 10% 12.5 + 3 -4 overlap. === ~140 MH gearing. I use the P-42 103 MAX as 90 + 9 + 4 = 103 as a template..
2a. That gearing will reduce the tractive effort available on diesel off CAT about ~30%.
3. Those speeds for the short distances that can allow 125 at present should be enough to allow scheduling to tighten 10 - 15 minutes NYP <> WASH.
4. If those dual modes continue past WASH with that 140 gearing how much slower accelerations will the Silvers, Crescent and Cardinal have ? Will that also slow them on grades except for Silvers and Palmetto.? If the Roanoke train just has one loco as it does now I for see a much slower climb especially to ROA.
5. Saving time with the loco change at WASH would seem IMO to actually slow these trains total time down ?
6. This may also apply to the Vermonter and its lack of change at New Haven.
7. The use of Duals "may" not be a problem for NECs to Richmond, Norfolk, Newport News. However leaving Main Street station going up the hill ???
EDIT. At least west coast locos are to be straight diesel for immediate future so probably the 103 certification ?
Generally, it is cheaper at least in the short-mid term to adapt the equipment to the infrastructure rather than re-do the infrastructure (i.e. hang more wire).
Perhaps Acella-2's will eventually displace the Regionals, which would surplus those electric locomotives to Commuter Rail railroads.
Maybe this regenerative-braking is enough to justify the battery tender they are talking about. Would diesel fuel savings pay for the batteries? In the case of hybrid automobiles, the gasoline fuel savings probably pay for the battery.
Perhaps Acella-2's will eventually displace the Regionals, which would surplus those electric locomotives to Commuter Rail railroads.
Maybe this regenerative-braking is enough to justify the battery tender they are talking about. Would diesel fuel savings pay for the batteries? In the case of hybrid automobiles, the gasoline fuel savings probably pay for the battery.
Dunno. Amtrak has an opportunity to have a new fleet that can be utilized across the system. It's one thing to do that on equipment bought by state's for their own services, but I hope they keep the pooled equipment standardized and don't mess that up with custom regionalized branding like we've seen with the Cascades and Surfliner.
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Owner/operator of TrainSim.com (the internet's largest train simulation community)
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BandA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:48 am Would diesel fuel savings pay for the batteries? In the case of hybrid automobiles, the gasoline fuel savings probably pay for the battery.Nah, I don't think the hybrid comes anywhere close to gas savings paying for the battery.
A new Prius battery costs around $4000 without labor to install it. At today's national average prices, that's around 1000 to 1200 gallons of gas.... I don't think there are too many Prius owners who manage to do 30-33,000 miles of battery-only driving.
Carry that math over to the mass of batteries needed to a million or more pounds of trainset, and I don't think you'll ever negate the cost on fuel savings alone.
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Owner/operator of TrainSim.com (the internet's largest train simulation community)
Owner/operator of TrainSim.com (the internet's largest train simulation community)
Each Christmas I travel form New Jersey to New Hampshire for family celebration. I'm 81 years old. Any chance the new equipment will be operating on the Vermonter while I'm still around? I really look forward to bigger windows. (I've given up on ever Amtracking to Scranton)
Regional branding isn't really a big deal if it's all the same rolling stock in different liveries.
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eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:29 amThe regenerative braking is the thing. On my recent gasoline automobile, RIP, my WAG is at least 20% of the energy got used up in the braking system.BandA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:48 am Would diesel fuel savings pay for the batteries? In the case of hybrid automobiles, the gasoline fuel savings probably pay for the battery.Nah, I don't think the hybrid comes anywhere close to gas savings paying for the battery.
A new Prius battery costs around $4000 without labor to install it. At today's national average prices, that's around 1000 to 1200 gallons of gas.... I don't think there are too many Prius owners who manage to do 30-33,000 miles of battery-only driving.
Carry that math over to the mass of batteries needed to a million or more pounds of trainset, and I don't think you'll ever negate the cost on fuel savings alone.
west point wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:59 amIf those dual modes continue past WASH with that 140 gearing how much slower accelerations will the Silvers, Crescent and Cardinal have ?I think they’ve already said they won’t on those routes. Palmetto will run with this new equipment but the overnight long distance trains will continue with Siemens sprinters/switch to alc42 at WAS.
The long distance trains don't exactly need breakneck start-stop acceleration/deceleration. The P42s aren't remotely fast from a start and apparently load like a sleepy walrus. If anything, the new equipment will accelerate the same trains a whole lot faster due to faster loading and modern AC traction.
BandA wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:55 pmBrake wear as well. Probably more relevant in a dmu type setup , rather than a loco/ car trainset. speaking of which , Anderson's mention of DMU's for Amtrak appears to have gone with him??? Unless these trainsets were what he had in mind ???eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:29 amThe regenerative braking is the thing. On my recent gasoline automobile, RIP, my WAG is at least 20% of the energy got used up in the braking system.BandA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:48 am Would diesel fuel savings pay for the batteries? In the case of hybrid automobiles, the gasoline fuel savings probably pay for the battery.Nah, I don't think the hybrid comes anywhere close to gas savings paying for the battery.
A new Prius battery costs around $4000 without labor to install it. At today's national average prices, that's around 1000 to 1200 gallons of gas.... I don't think there are too many Prius owners who manage to do 30-33,000 miles of battery-only driving.
Carry that math over to the mass of batteries needed to a million or more pounds of trainset, and I don't think you'll ever negate the cost on fuel savings alone.
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The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
David Benton wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:37 pm Brake wear as well. Probably more relevant in a dmu type setup , rather than a loco/ car trainset. speaking of which , Anderson's mention of DMU's for Amtrak appears to have gone with him??? Unless these trainsets were what he had in mind ???Unless what we think of DMUs is old-fashioned and new DMUs define "unit" as "the entire consist".
