CSX Acquisition of Pan Am Railways

There is significant Ayer to Alabama land fill trash container business that PAS/NS have initiated in 2020. And the NS-PAS-P&W business has grown over the years with autos/steel/haz waste/misc bulk. Also I'm guessing NS instrumental in bringing LPG into E Deerfield for PAS to distribute. And there really isn't any reason why NS couldn't be a bigger player sourcing grain to Ardent Mills at Ayer.

newpylong wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:38 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:18 pm What's in it for NS to dump Topper's oats into making the B&M into an FRA Class 4 road?

Not much - not enough tonnage. But the B&M was traditionally Class 3,

OK Mr. Newpy; FRA Class 3 40mph.

Now I am curious; what is the routing for the traffic to Alabama noted by Mr. Barlow? Assuming such follows I-81 over historic N&W, which interchanged with PRR at Hagerstown, how does it get from Bingo to H'town?

johnpbarlow wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:16 pm There is significant Ayer to Alabama land fill trash container business that PAS/NS have initiated in 2020. And the NS-PAS-P&W business has grown over the years with autos/steel/haz waste/misc bulk. Also I'm guessing NS instrumental in bringing LPG into E Deerfield for PAS to distribute. And there really isn't any reason why NS couldn't be a bigger player sourcing grain to Ardent Mills at Ayer.

You could not be more wrong. NS hasn't done anything to grow their business in New England. The LPG and trash business has been a 100% effort on the part of the people in Billerica.
NS will obfuscate others from buying the Pan Am in whole, but they have had 10 years to buy out Mellon and they haven't done it.

Yep. 90% of the LPG comes out of Rotterdam. That all was sold from Billerica like the other big contracts.

Also, trash is an extremely low-value commodity. Very much not the cash cow that Class 1's chase.

In regards to NS, I've always heard that 22/23K are solid money-makers for NS, and they HAVE invested a lot into getting PAS to be capable of handling double stacks and building an intermodal customer base in Mass. . Why would they want to just abandon that?

I think conflicting statements abound here. Mr. Barlow states that there is lucrative business originating in Billerica and that gets a good line haul to Alabama. "Pat", who somehow gets internet access in the Pokey, says that traffic is marginal and that, aside from maybe adding a bit to it, Topper has done nothing to develop it with marketing. Now Mr. Newpy notes the traffic originates in Rotterdam NY - not even on the B&M!

So if you gentlemen could "reconcile" these conflicting statements, this "transplant" (from Greenwich) to the Midwest would sure be grateful.

Finally Mr. Cosakita has noted that NS is aggressively soliciting business originating on the B&M and is investing to make handling of double stacks, and consequently auto racks, possible. It would seem to me digging out Hoosac will be quite the job.

I just meant the vast majority of the propane for PAS comes from the CSXT interchange at RJ, not from NS. It doesn't originate there.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Again I note, Topper ain't some dumb bobtail nag.

I'll take the same odds on Canadian National. Also "same action" on the half odds side line of "Maple Leaf Special" that buyer is from North of the border.



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Gilbert B Norman wrote:Final thought, are there any major retailer Distribution Centers (Wally World, Amazon) in Northern Maine?

Furthest into Maine is Wal-Mart Distribution Center in Lewiston. Closest Amazon is either Stoughton, MA or Nashua, NH. Hannaford has a major distribution center in Winthrop that is exclusivly truck served. Major distribution center in Bangor are largely paper and forest products related.



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bostontrainguy wrote:

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:18 pm CP only a circuitous via Canada . . .

So; anyone?

Not exactly. CP already says it has rights to Ayer so they are actually connected at both ends which is strongly advantageous.

https://www.cpr.ca/en/choose-rail/intermodal-shipping

What are these rights that CP has into Ayer??? First I ever recall of that ... Is this some kind of joint pricing scheme?

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gokeefe wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:50 pm I'll take the same odds on Canadian National

Mr O'Keefe, I still hold your tickets will be consigned to whoever cleans up around the windows at the racetrack!!

Reiterating earlier points, CN has no physical interchange but apparently makes rates with the Short Line that acquired the Grand Trunk from them.

But I guess what I'm most interested to learn from this Forum is there any high value traffic presently moving over Maine "highways"(sorry but, "if you can call 'em that") that could move over the rails (with investment in FRA Class 3; 40mph; edited) in a competitive manner to attract shippers like Wally World, Amazon, and the automakers?

This is the most knowledgeable, mature, and respectful railroad forum I know, so I stand interested to review any knowledgeable responses.

There have been many statements about no physical connections to CN. Is that really true? We would have to review the transactions which formed SLR and NECR. I had heard that, at least in the NECR deal, that CN retained title to the property, and G&W has some franchise to operate rail service over it. It would take review of the deeds, and any ICC documents of the sale. Also, did CN place any interchange restrictions on the sale?

WRT CP Intermodal rights to Ayer, years ago I recall seeing a Guilford pig train arrive Mohawk Yard and drop 1 or 2 flats of containers from the rest of the train that GRS would turn over to CP/NS for the trip west over the D&H. Unfortunately I have no photographic evidence but I was told but a knowledgeable person that on occasion GRS would interchange a few containers full of animal hides with CP for the trip north to Montreal (I might have the direction backwards as maybe hides came from CP?). At any rate and FWIW, the domestic intermodal schedule that CP currently has posted on its corporate website does not show Ayer as a point of origin or destination.

newpylong wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:32 pm I just meant the vast majority of the propane for PAS comes from the CSXT interchange at RJ, not from NS. It doesn't originate there.

OK understood - I think NS does source some LPG for EDPO as well although based on unscientific eyeball observations I'm guessing CSX brings in more LPG via Q426/B728.

Someone asked what routing Ayer originated trash takes to get to Alabama ( a 1,000 mile haul for NS v. 150 miles for PAS): NS/PAS train 11R takes the re-purposed tarp-covered Maersk/Sealand international shipping containers from PAS to Binghamton where it's placed on 11Z to Enola where it's placed on 15T bound for Irondale AL (ie, Birmingham). The trash containers go to Arrowhead landfill at Uniontown AL, about 100 miles SW of Irondale. These containers travel south 10 to a 5 well container car in lots of 1, 2, or 3 cars a few times per week, I think. See attached photo of such a car found in the NS 11R consist at Delanson on October 13, 2019.

Re: 22K/23K, I witnessed a 2+ mile long 22K with about 80 JBHU, EMP, and Hub containers in the Ayer single stack block (there was also 1 Swift container which shows up from time to time) along with the Taylor and Mechanicville double stacked blocks cross Main St Elkhart at just after 0330 this morning. This is a pretty typical daily consist although there are occasions when the Ayer portion comprises lots of bare tables. And FWIW, UP established interline container interchange with NS for a number of eastern US destinations including Ayer with containers originating at Houston, San Antonio, Santa Theresa, Salt Lake City, and Seattle.
https://www.up.com/customers/announceme ... 20-15.html

Lastly, my understanding based on an in-depth Trains Magazine article on Pan Am from a year or so ago is that 23K is hauls paper rolls to Chicago and points west from the GMX warehouse at Ayer. I don't know how much business this is but I have read NS crews say that 23K can be quite a heavy train.

I'm guessing that, in general, the traffic jointly developed and nurtured by the PAS partnership produces many more gross ton miles for NS than it does PAS. So I would think if NS is not going to purchase the Pan Am portion of PAS, it would want to see a non-competitor acquire District 3 to preserve the trash, autos, intermodal, and other carload business that it has developed with Pan Am (obvious statement I guess...).

i'm just over here hoping that whoever buys it renames it to B&M again. the pan am name is stupid for a small regional railroad