Amtrak Expansion Plan

I think we can do one of Babylon or Patchogue. Regardless,

NY Penn
Jamaica
Mineola
Hicksville
Patchogue
Westhampton
Southampton
East Hampton
Montauk

Mineola has become such a big hub for work, Mineola should really not be ignored. I don't know how to divide the Hamptons stations.

That's too many stops for the "Sunrise LTd",a limited stop express
Out of NYPenn,Jamaica or Hicksville for the Greenport connection(North Fork)
Babylon(local scoot connection that turns at Southampton)
Speonk(2nd chance for the Southampton scoot)
Bridgehampton
Maybe E. Hampton
Montauk (end of run)
The trick is to keep moving on the Mainline,not get tangled with LIRR locals.
From Penn,all stops are discharge,proper connections at Jamaica/Hicksville,Babylon,and Speonk.
Will need interline ticketing for the connecting trains.
Max,in this case LESS is more!

Backshophoss wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:09 amWill need interline ticketing for the connecting trains.

Another interesting aspect to running on the LIRR. Amtrak doesn't currently do this elsewhere (for example NJT, SEPTA, Metro North etc.).

gokeefe wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:58 pm This is a really interesting point. Never even thought to consider the implications of connecting with JFK.

This is a potential boom to upstate folks.
While it's "Albany International Airport" the reality is... it's not really.
And Stewart's is closer, but not a lot of options there either.

So folks look to NYC or Boston (we did Boston last year, for a variety of reasons).
And there's a "limousine service" from the Albany area to JFK, but it's not cheap. If I could take a direct train, I'd seriously consider it.

I wonder if a run through on the Empire Service could work. Would the track configuration allow that?

I'm assuming there would be significant risks to OTP though ...

Whether the trains would run push-pull or wye at the end of the line is another question. I guess it would depend on timing and availability of control cars.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:02 am I wonder if a run through on the Empire Service could work. Would the track configuration allow that?

I'm assuming there would be significant risks to OTP though ...

As long as the Empire train uses Platform 3 or higher there should be no trouble running through.

In the specific thread about this subject, it was pointed out that LIRR rules require an onerous route qualification process that Amtrak may not want to pay its engineers to complete. Might be that Amtrak would be better off handing the controls to a LIRR train crew at Penn Station. On-board service personnel could remain, or also trade out for MTA personnel if Amtrak wished to just hand off the train altogether a la Maple Leaf to VIA crew.

Would the LI unions even consider allowing Amtrak crews to operate east of NYP? I can't imagine it. OBS employees shouldn't be a problem, since the LIRR doesn't have any. (Or do they, on the Cannonball? If they do, that might be a problem.)

If LIRR does have its own OBS crew, it might very well be preferable for Amtrak to hand off the entire thing. No need for a crew base in the Hamptons if that’s the case, and I can’t imagine that kind of office being cheap.

Backshophoss wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:09 am That's too many stops for the "Sunrise LTd",a limited stop express
Out of NYPenn,Jamaica or Hicksville for the Greenport connection(North Fork)
Babylon(local scoot connection that turns at Southampton)
Speonk(2nd chance for the Southampton scoot)
Bridgehampton
Maybe E. Hampton
Montauk (end of run)
The trick is to keep moving on the Mainline,not get tangled with LIRR locals.
From Penn,all stops are discharge,proper connections at Jamaica/Hicksville,Babylon,and Speonk.
Will need interline ticketing for the connecting trains.
Max,in this case LESS is more!

NK, RGA, BSH and Everyone:

The proposed Amtrak service should only again make the following stops:
-Jamaica (not fully necessary - the JFK Airtrain connection may be the tipping point)
-Babylon (end of electrified territory - and Patchogue/Speonk "scoots")
-Patchogue (Babylon-Patchogue terminus and largest South Shore village in central Suffolk County)
This service can stop at either one of these stations - both is not an absolute requirement.
The "big four" East End Montauk Branch stations are in order: Westhampton, Southampton, East Hampton
and Montauk...These are the highest ridership East End stations on the Montauk Branch.

There would only be seven stops total if all of these stations were served - and may end up being five
or six if decisions are made concerning serving Jamaica, Babylon and Patchogue.

From Jamaica this train should have the option of running over the Montauk Branch or Main Line/Central
Branch. Adding unnecessary stops (for this proposed train) at Mineola and Hicksville would require this
service to run by way of the Main Line and Central Branch only. For example the LIRR Friday Afternoon
Cannonball runs east on the Montauk Branch - in which express trains can make better time then the
longer Main Line/Central Branch route. With ongoing Third Track Project construction avoiding possible
congestion on the Main Line for the quicker Montauk Branch route is the way to go.

There is NO need for any stop between Babylon and Patchogue - The LIRR runs adequate (connecting)
service to intermediate stations between the two. There are connections to Fire Island ferries from three
Montauk Branch stations - Bay Shore, Sayville AND Patchogue - served by local Montauk Branch trains.
Connections from either Babylon or Patchogue should be sufficient enough to serve these stations.

With the market of this added service being the East End tourist region the "big four" stations have to be
served - which are WESTHAMPTON, SOUTHAMPTON, EAST HAMPTON and MONTAUK solely. For example
I never even considered a stop at Speonk especially with Westhampton just 2.9 miles away...

I came up with the proposed stops using the Empire Service on the Hudson Line for a comparison then
adding the big four LIRR East End stations to the total...

MACTRAXX

gokeefe wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:26 am

Backshophoss wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:09 amWill need interline ticketing for the connecting trains.

Another interesting aspect to running on the LIRR. Amtrak doesn't currently do this elsewhere (for example NJT, SEPTA, Metro North etc.).

Amtrak does treat the NJT Atlantic City Line as a Thruway service.

Wow. Apparently they do! I'm assuming the fare at the bottom was cutoff??

gokeefe wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:20 am Wow. Apparently they do! I'm assuming the fare at the bottom was cutoff??

I may have been a little too aggressive with my snipping.

The list as it stands right now:

1. Downeaster: Seasonal service extension to Rockland

2. Gulf Coast: Service between Mobile and New Orleans

3. Midwest: Service between Chicago, Detroit and Toronto

4. Ethan Allen: Extension to Burlington

5. Vermonter: Extension to Montreal

6. Inland Corridor: Service between Boston and Springfield (operator not certain to be Amtrak)

7. Valley Flyer: Service between Springfield and Greenfield (starting within the next 30 days)

8. Berkshire Flyer: Seasonal service between New York Penn and Pittsfield

9. New York: Service between New York Penn and Long Island

10. Heartland Flyer: Extension to Newton via Wichita

11. Illinois: Service between Chicago and the Quad Cities

12. Illinois: Service between Chicago and Rockford

13. Minnesota: Service between Minneapolis St. Paul and Duluth (operator not certain to be Amtrak)

14. Coast Daylight: Service between points north of San Francisco and Los Angeles

Clarification on the exact terminal points of the Coast Daylight would still be appreciated.

I checked on some of the Ohio and Indiana proposals and none of them appear to have much traction at this time. With the sole exception of the Long Island service all of the above proposals already have route studies complete, EIS/FONSI and are in the process of seeking funding and/or are under construction or preparation for operations.

The Toronto-Detroit-Chicago is assumed to have route study complete because of its origin at Amtrak.

WhartonAndNorthern wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:56 am

gokeefe wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:26 am

Backshophoss wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:09 amWill need interline ticketing for the connecting trains.

Another interesting aspect to running on the LIRR. Amtrak doesn't currently do this elsewhere (for example NJT, SEPTA, Metro North etc.).

Amtrak does treat the NJT Atlantic City Line as a Thruway service.

Yoooooo whatttt! Why don't they do this for other trains? I'm going to ask about the connection with the CTrail Hartford Line, which Amtrak owns and dispatches along with their Springfield Shuttles.