Possible NJ Transit Fare Increase and Service Cuts

One thing really bothers me.

Theyre cutting the bus between Philly and Six Flags. In the grand scheme of things, insignificant (and off topic on this forum!).

But please, hear me out.

They justify it by saying the bus only carries 5 people per hour and requires a $10 subsidy.

But hold up. Its a route that makes one outbound trip in the morning, and one inbound in the evening. Passengers per hour, as a metric, makes zero sense. 99.99% of the passengers that go out bound return inbound. In fact, they only sell rountrip tickets. The bus is also express. You cant get on or off along the way. Youre either going to Six Flags, or youre not.

A better metric is % of seats occupied. From what I saw last week, it was around 80%. (I took the bus to Six Flags from Newark)

Further, as a leisure route, why couldnt they raise the fare individually on this line higher than on other lines? Riders have a higher tolerance for the fare because theyre going for fun. If there is a $10 subsidy....raise the fare $10? Is that not more preferable than cutting the line?

And lets not even get into reaching out to Six Flags for a subsidy on their end.

So why am I talking about this bus on a rail forum? Because if NJ Transit is using these absolutely ridiculous metrics, and making zero effort to decrease the subsidy, how are we supposed to trust them on their other points?

Of course, this is the same agency that sets local bus fares at prices that require nickels, which nobody wants to carry...

James Sinclair's post sounds intelligent.

jamesinclair wrote:One thing really bothers me.

Theyre cutting the bus between Philly and Six Flags. In the grand scheme of things, insignificant (and off topic on this forum!).

But please, hear me out.

They justify it by saying the bus only carries 5 people per hour and requires a $10 subsidy.

But hold up. Its a route that makes one outbound trip in the morning, and one inbound in the evening. Passengers per hour, as a metric, makes zero sense. 99.99% of the passengers that go out bound return inbound. In fact, they only sell rountrip tickets. The bus is also express. You cant get on or off along the way. Youre either going to Six Flags, or youre not.

A better metric is % of seats occupied. From what I saw last week, it was around 80%. (I took the bus to Six Flags from Newark)

Further, as a leisure route, why couldnt they raise the fare individually on this line higher than on other lines? Riders have a higher tolerance for the fare because theyre going for fun. If there is a $10 subsidy....raise the fare $10? Is that not more preferable than cutting the line?

And lets not even get into reaching out to Six Flags for a subsidy on their end.

So why am I talking about this bus on a rail forum? Because if NJ Transit is using these absolutely ridiculous metrics, and making zero effort to decrease the subsidy, how are we supposed to trust them on their other points?

Of course, this is the same agency that sets local bus fares at prices that require nickels, which nobody wants to carry...

Does the bus and driver simply wait at Six Flags for the return trip? If so, the passengers per hour metric might be appropriate from that perspective.

Ken W2KB wrote: Does the bus and driver simply wait at Six Flags for the return trip? If so, the passengers per hour metric might be appropriate from that perspective.

I dont know what the driver does. However, the bus leaves Philly at 9:00am and ends the day at 11pm. That seems a tad long for a single driver to do. On July 4th, the return trip finishes the run at 12:30am, assuming everything runs on time.

On top of that, the Philly service only operates for a grand total of 20 days / 20 trips.

If an agency is looking for money, I dont see how cutting 20 trips a year is where the pot of gold is.

Here's the hours of Service Law for bus and truck drivers.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/ho ... egulations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Folks,

This is not a bus forum! NJT Rail. Thank you. If you want to talk buses, go find a bus forum.

nick11a wrote:Folks,

This is not a bus forum! NJT Rail. Thank you. If you want to talk buses, go find a bus forum.

I see this complaint a lot, but remember they're not simply glorifying a bus or going off on unnecessary tangents. What the original poster was doing was contemplating the management decisions and metrics that go into the fare and scheduling process. This topic is very NJT relevant, as what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Now, back to talking about how crowded the trains are and how necessary the tunnel project is.

Also I might add, the article in Courier Post stated the 9% fare hike was due largely to increased costs of pensions, and increased contract costs on the Hudson Bergen light rail. The NJ state retirees employer contribution went up 25% this year. Frankly, that is unsustainable. Thanks, Governor! And as for light rail and other capital costs, maybe if they charged a better fraction of what light rail cost, it wouldn't result in a fare increase across the board. The farebox recovery of the river line is anemic, and how! After the credit card companies and cash collection agencies get their take, the $ per rider brought in on these lines is very slim.

Mod Note- Unlocking topic. This indeed has to do with the rail service. The nine percent fare increase is across the board, rail, bus, etc. not just the busses, and careful reading of the last paragraph reveals a couple of late night trains are being cut. This thread and topic are fair game, now cool it.

In yesterday's Courier Post, the top stories were conductor lockout, and fare hike. The union had a comment on both issues, they're anti fare increase but the cause of it is deemed to be related to the pension and the runaway cost of the light rail projects.

ACeInTheHole wrote:Mod Note- Unlocking topic. This indeed has to do with the rail service. The nine percent fare increase is across the board, rail, bus, etc. not just the busses, and careful reading of the last paragraph reveals a couple of late night trains are being cut. This thread and topic are fair game, now cool it.

Thanks ACE. Also, I'm merging this discussion about the fare hike being approved with the pre-existing conversation prior to the approval.

How long will pre-hike tickets be good for after the fare hike?

TrainPhotos wrote:How long will pre-hike tickets be good for after the fare hike?

Transit's current policy that has been in effect for a number of years is that "one way" and "round trip" tickets are good until used. I've even had people show me tickets printed on the old, no longer used ticket stock, and I tell them that they are still good.

philipmartin wrote:

TrainPhotos wrote:How long will pre-hike tickets be good for after the fare hike?

Transit's current policy that has been in effect for a number of years is that "one way" and "round trip" tickets are good until used. I've even had people show me tickets printed on the old, no longer used ticket stock, and I tell them that they are still good.

Just to clarify, ten trip tickets are ten one ways, good until used. The only other tickets NJT has are weeklies and monthlies, which have built in expirations. Group tickets are only valid for a specific date, I believe.
Naturally, some folks stock up on tickets sold at the old rates before increases go into effect. I might do it myself if I lose my pass privileges with the new labor contract.

Well, looks like no more trips on the train from north to central Jersey for me. It is just not economical.

If you have the money, it is good to buy and save them. Though you could go overboard since you cannot predict the future. I used to stock up on the tickets going to work back when I had an employer benefit plan. However, I did not know I would end up moving, so I no longer need the tickets I bought. Now I have 4-5 tickets leftover from SEC to Hawthorne, not knowing when I will ever get to use them. I have a couple more random unused tickets sitting for over a year (from friends giving me a ride back home instead). I believe there should be some sort of exchange program.

F40 wrote: I have 4-5 tickets leftover from SEC to Hawthorne, not knowing when I will ever get to use them. I have a couple more random unused tickets sitting for over a year (from friends giving me a ride back home instead). I believe there should be some sort of exchange program.

Tickets are good to other locations where the zones and fares are the same. For a more lengthy trip, you buy a ticket from where your ticket is valid to to your destination. If you buy it on the train there is no surcharge because you already have a ticket. You could save a little money by showing ID and filling out a form at any railroad ticket window and exchanging them for the same kind of ticket, where the fare is the same or higher.
This doesn't apply to MyTix; you activate it, and if you don't use is in two hours forty-five minutes, you loose your money. Tickets on the Erie lines can be more complicated due to non standard agreements with Metro North.
A ticket between SEC and Hawthorne is also valid from SEC to Short Hills, Millburn, Cranford and Linden, and intermediate stations on any line, perhaps the Atlantic City Line is excepted.
http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/budget_Rail-NewYork.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;