Passenger Conductors on NYC Trains

I'm probably in the wrong forum for this question, so, please forgive me. My question
is this: On New York Central passenger trains, how many conductors would be assigned to
a train? I am assuming one, along with a couple of Trainmen. I ask because my young nephew
just heard the song "City of New Orleans" and it mentions "three conductors". He asked me about it.
He and I are now wondering how the NYC did it. Are we counting the railroad assigned conductor, plus,
Pullman conductors, or, did the railroad assign a conductor for every so many cars? How did they do it
on the NYC? Thanks in advance.

Conductors and trainmen/brakemen wore the same style uniform. Cap badges for the two were different. Some roads also put stripes on the uniform sleeves to denote decades of service. The City of New Orleans didn't have any Pullman conductors because it had coaches only. Probably one conductor and two trainmen.

On the NYC, there was 1 Conductor assigned to a train. If additional personnel were required for revenue collection, these were "Assistant Conductors". There were also passenger brakemen who were qualified to collect revenue. Generally, a non-revenue-qualified brakeman would be assigned as either the baggageman if there was a working baggage car or as the flagman. Basic crew under the agreements then in force called for a conductor + 2 trainmen for 5 cars or more. 4 cars or less required only a conductor, plus an assistant conductor if revenue work required it.

Pullman conductors were not NYC employees and were assigned by the Pullman Co. if the train consist included sleepers or Pullman parlor cars. Generally, 1 Pullman Conductor on a train, and he would lift only the Pullman tickets while the NYC Conductor would lift the railroad tickets.

Thanks guys! As an aside, the late father of a co-worker of mine, used to work for the Rutland
out of Ogdensburg. He held down the flagman's job on the milk train for a number of years. He
told me that he had to be in uniform because on the New York State portion of the train (O'burg to
Rouses Point) they were required to carry passengers, if any. It was just the engine crew, the
head brakeman, the conductor and him. Also, thanks for the tip on "the City"....I did not realize
that is was an all coach train. Thanks again.

To add to the above, I seem to recall a conductor telling me that when they began the Empire Service operation with a 3 car train they could run it with a conductor only and the conductor in some cases went through from Grand Central Terminal to Buffalo in some cases. More than 3 cars required more crew. SHL am I correct on this one?
Noel Weaver

Noel:

If 3 cars or less, we generally assigned only a Cond. tot he train. If 4 cars, we added the Asst. Cond.

5 cars or more required a full crew.

Extra Assts. would be added depending upon the expected passenger volume and the number of stops.

Not sure when the interdivisional runs (train crews only) were started. Crews could work through GCT / Buffalo, runs were split between Hudson, Mohawk, and Syracuse Division Seniority Districts and covered by a single timeslip.

Also, not sure if the run through was applied to Boston trains west of Albany.

I'm told that the engine crews were offered the run through at one time and declined, remaining on the divisional basis.

I rode No. 15 fairly often in the summer and fall of 1961 from GCT to Buffalo, and I'm sure the conductor worked through to Buffalo at that time.

shl......you stated that the interdivision runs were split between three different seniority districts.
Does that mean that they took turns ( among the districts ) in covering these runs, i.e., Hudson would do
this train, Mohawk the next, and so?

I don't know what the running time would have been on such a run from GCT to Buffalo, but, that must have been
a long, long day! I am assuming that a crew would only work one or two trips a week?

Bigt wrote:shl......you stated that the interdivision runs were split between three different seniority districts.
Does that mean that they took turns ( among the districts ) in covering these runs, i.e., Hudson would do
this train, Mohawk the next, and so?

I don't know what the running time would have been on such a run from GCT to Buffalo, but, that must have been
a long, long day! I am assuming that a crew would only work one or two trips a week?

The mileage was fairly evenly split between the three divisions. The Mohawk folks would have to deadhead on their own time to either Buffalo or New York in order to cover one of these interdivisional jobs. On another subject related I first rode the B &A in November, 1962 on the New England States from Boston to Chicago and on west from there. The conductor on that train that date (a Saturday in November, the day of the Yale/Havard football game in Cambridge) went through from Boston to Buffalo so at least at that time some crews ran through on the B & A as well. The engineers might have been cool to longer runs in the Central days but in later days with Penn Central and especially Conrail the engineers for the most part went for longer interdivisonal runs, I know, I had one for ten good years out of Selkirk.
Noel Weaver

The jobs were advertised for specific trains. Might be #15 (Ohio State Ltd.) GCT to BUF, rest, #90 (Chicagoan) BUF to GCT.

Total time on duty was in the 10' to 12' range both ways. Hours of Service limit was 16', later reduced to 14'.

Trains which did the local work en route such as #43 (South Shore Express) or #39 (North Shore Ltd.) were not part of the run throughs.

Not sure which M&E trains were part of the interdivisional assignments.

Mr. Lustig, when I worked Amtrak trains in the mid-70's until the Amtrak "take over" of Train/Engine crews in April '86, we weren't referred too as "Assistant Conductors", but as "Helper Conductors" on the runs between ALB-GCT and ALB-SYR (I can't vouch for the SRB boys---Asst or Helper Cdrs). It wasn't until the 4/16/86 Amtrak date (Amtrak Zone 3: NYG-MTR/NYG-NFL (SYR)/BOS-ALB with ALB as the crew base-BOS crewed 449/448), that the term Asst. Cdr replaced "Helper Cdr". I know this may sound like nit-picking, but prior to Amtrak assignments between ALB (SDY)-GCT and return were Conductor one-way/Helper Conductor return---same pay, but different responsibilities (more paperwork as Cdr). An example is one I was awarded in early '80's was: #62 Cond ALB-GCT and return #49 Helper Cdr GCT-ALB. Like I said, all the old NYC Cdrs I worked with never used the "Asst. Cdr" moniker, but Helper Cond.
I worked with a lot of former NYC guys who did the long Passenger pool jobs, they said they were hard on the family life, but paid good! Typical rails, eh?

Jim:

You are correct: "Helper Cdr." for the division jobs; "Asst. Cdr." for the commuter assignments.

Still not sure if the if the M&E trains were interdivisional; can't find any of the old job advertisements.

Everyone: I found this topic on NYC Passenger Conductors interesting...I remember Amtrak's (Conrail operation) crew districts were NYG-ALB;
ALB-SYR; SYR-BUF for Empire trains and on the Lake Shore Limited BUF-TOL; TOL-EKH and EKH-CHI for T&E crews...I also remember back in
the early 80s after service was extended to NFL that there were crews working trains from BUF/Depew to Niagara Falls for a time exclusively...

When NYC Conductors worked trains from Grand Central Terminal to Buffalo Central Terminal did they "overnight" there and work a train
E the next day? How many days off did they have between runs? Did trainmen work similarly or were their runs shorter such as GCT-ALB?

With the changes during the 80s Amtrak's Empire T&E crews work NYP-ALB; ALB-BUF-NFL or NFS (or CLE on the Lake Shore Limited") and
CLE-CHI...Is this correct?

MACTRAXX

When Amtrak ran the crews on #'s 49 & 48 (Lake Shore Ltd.) between ALB and CLE, they would go on duty @ ALB around 8:30 Pm/ 9 PM and off duty @ CLE around 6:30AM if the train was OT, be off duty until 1:30 AM / 2 AM, and then work back to ALB arriving around 10 AM if OT.

If an extra man was called @ ALB to cover a vacancy, he could be up all day with no job in sight and then get called for #49. There was no provision for an early call (regular call was 2') time to allow someone to take a nap before reporting for the job.

Not sure how long this lasted.

When I rode the Empire State Express in June 1967 the conductor worked GCT-Cleveland. I know because he was a New York Yankee fan and he told me he had seen the Yanks play the Indians at Cleveland Municipal Stadium on one of his layovers.

At some point around 1960 in order to try and save trains (jobs) passenger trainmen on New York-Chicago passenger trains agreed to an interdivisional setup with just three crews. One crew would work between GCT-Buffalo, the second crew worked between Buffalo-Toledo and the third crew worked between Toledo-Chicago. As I remember, I was told it was the entire train crew, too, not just the conductors.