Pan Am fined by MA DEP for improper tie disposal

BOSTON (AP) - The state Department of Environmental Protection fines a railroad company nearly $75,000 for improperly disposing railroad ties.

...

Officials say the largest part of the fine -- nearly $60,000 -- is related to disposal practices in Deerfield where fire officials say brush fires have spread to piles of abandoned ties.

Read the rest at:

http://www.eyewitnessnewstv.com/Global/ ... v=menu20_3

I recall Guilford/Pan Am owes some towns substantial amounts in property tax payments also, and has not paid those taxes for some time.

Makes me wonder what will happen when the EPA discovers all those old batteries from signal installations everywhere, that were just thrown down embankments or into the woods...

The real question is HOW LONG WILL IT GET TIED UP IN COURT?and will PanAm / Guilford ever pay up ?Almost every railroad has old tie buts laying around.Conrail used to cut them in half and throw then aside.
In CR days there was a mountain of them in Rochdale,Ma.
Skull

Skullitor wrote:The real question is HOW LONG WILL IT GET TIED UP IN COURT?and will PanAm / Guilford ever pay up ?Almost every railroad has old tie buts laying around.Conrail used to cut them in half and throw then aside.
In CR days there was a mountain of them in Rochdale,Ma.
Skull

Per the history channel (program called Bone Yards), it seems there is a growing market for used railroad ties as bio-mass fuel. They grind them up and burn them, creosote and all. Seems these guys might be sitting on a gold mine of fuel.

Last I knew Guilford sent their used ties up to their sawmill at 'Keag for burning as fuel (using old B&M hoppers, MEC gons, and MEC pulpwood cars to handle the move). Has this operation shut down?

Also, not sure what the precedent is for this fine or if it would even be legit. Every railroad has mountains of used ties sitting someplace, it does not seem like EPA has much of a basis unless the regs have been rewritten or they've decided to being enforcing regs that up til now were on the books but unenforced.

The problem here is not so much the ties themselves, but the fact that the ties catch on fire when passing trains start brush fires. It wasn't mentioned in that particular article I posted at the top of the thread, but in another article that somebody posted on one of the Yahoo groups, it was mentioned that the fire departments are concerned about the thick, toxic smoke that is emitted when the ties catch fire as a result of train-induced brush fires.

So, Pan Am either needs to store the ties elsewhere, or take measures to prevent the ties from catching on fire (in other words, take measures to prevent their trains from starting brush fires).

The amount of ties disposed of trackside of gross. I have never seen another RR just throw them there to the same extent. Yes, when Iwas on one of the locals for about 6 months we spent one day a week with the MOW and a crane operator loading old ties. They didn't do it out of environmental concern but the VP of the RR owns the tie burning plant in Maine and was hot to get fuel up there.

truman wrote:Makes me wonder what will happen when the EPA discovers all those old batteries from signal installations everywhere, that were just thrown down embankments or into the woods...

they wouldnt have if you didnt just spill the beans

MEC407 wrote:... take measures to prevent their trains from starting brush fires.

Tell me more about this? Trains cause brush fires? How so?

Yes, old ties along the ROW is "gross", and will add fuel to a brush fire,which CAN be started by sparks from a locomotive exhaust, brake friction, or dragging equipment. Hard to prove!

The throwing of non usable old ties along the ROW has been a "practice" of some lines for decades. There are some "fossils" alongside the SLR that were thrown there in the GT/CN days(pre 1989).

At least Guilford "piles them", probably due to Mellon owning the tie plant,as was said, in 'Keag, and using the old ties for fuel.

Guilford, and I know the old BAR, prosecuted several people, in years gone by, for stealing old ties from these piles for use at home, such as retaining walls etc. Seems kinda "petty" until you price "used ties" at places such as Home Depot,Lowes, etc.

Bud

Old ties are HazMat, so while the EPA might be attempting to make a point here, they are well within their rights to address this.

Dave Becker

l008com wrote:

MEC407 wrote:... take measures to prevent their trains from starting brush fires.

Tell me more about this? Trains cause brush fires? How so?

Usually caused by sparks and embers from the exhaust stack... or any of the numerous other ways that a train could create sparks.

Interesting...CSX sells its old ties to independent operators, who collect and dispose of them. Of all the carping I hear of all the things that cost the company money, fuel, train handling, employee healthcare and availability, I never hear of the old ties costing money, so I assume they make a profit on the disposal - instead of paying for removal.

You'd think Guilford would try the same approach.

conrail_engineer wrote:Interesting...CSX sells its old ties to independent operators, who collect and dispose of them. Of all the carping I hear of all the things that cost the company money, fuel, train handling, employee healthcare and availability, I never hear of the old ties costing money, so I assume they make a profit on the disposal - instead of paying for removal.

You'd think Guilford would try the same approach.

Maybe it's cheaper to pay the fine?