Oil train disaster in Lac-Mégantic, Québec 07-06-2013

Is anyone familiar with how long rail freight accident investigations last? When the final report comes out it will make news in Canada, especially Quebec, but in southern New Hampshire I'm not likely to hear about it over our native noise.

As far as repercussions go, someone will fall on his sword at MMA, someone low down on the pay scale, which is always the way. I don't think for a minute that any resulting rule changes won't be countered by a pile of exemptions.

NTSB air crash investigations often take up to two years to complete. I'm not sure what the typical timeline is for rail incidents. I imagine there's a lot of variation depending on the severity and the circumstances.

From my basic understanding of the cars used to transport crude oil, they are simple cylinders with flat ends and hard angles connecting the main cylindrical body to the end walls. Not the best shape for handling pressure, especially when heat is applied. Not surprised so many cars were involved taking that into account.

A few questions. If this was a one man crew, is it an engineer at the throttle of a loco, or a conductor at the controls of a remote control unit? Did this train originate (when it began to roll away) in a yard, or on a siding? If this train was being handled over main track, it should have had a certified locomotive engineer operating it. If it was in a yard, then the speculation that it was a conductor with remote control was handling it.

Now, the other speculation is that part of the train rolled away with the engines still coupled to the front. But, how do the engines uncouple, derail somewhere, and not take the rest of the train with them? Did they roll off the rails at a curve and end up out of the way of the rolling tank cars? That's the only thing that would make sense to me.

I know it would be a huge change for the industry, but if its found that the hand brakes on the cars were properly set by the train crew member who left the train, and that someone came along and tampered with them, releasing them, it might be time for the industry to mandate key locks on each handbrake's release lever. That way, not just anyone could walk up and pull the hand rake release lever. This would add a significant amount of time to each job, but preventing outside tampering would be worth the extra time.

I would expect repercussions to linger on for years and years and years. No telling how long the investigation will last.

Charlie

I have just finished looking at over 100 photos of the scene at Lac Megantic. Absolutely no sign whatsoever of the head end power!

This is the strangest thing. There are all the media in half the country onscene. I wouldn't think it would be too hard to follow the rail line from Nantes to lac Megantic and look for the locomotives. I don't think that 5 engines could derail without leaving any signs!

Wouldn't you think that somebody on the scene, with half a brain, could look around a bit and at least find the missing pieces of the puzzle? The media is totally out to lunch on this, it is just like Sandy Hook, if they don't know something they just make it up.

God help us!

SRM

The tank car with it's end on a grade crossing (the 2nd car from the pile of derailed cars) is NATX 310470. I can't read the placard.
Fromhttp://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ ... irmed.html:

Railway personnel pulled 13 cars intact from the rear of the train at the scene

JimBoylan wrote:The tank car with it's end on a grade crossing (the 2nd car from the pile of derailed cars) is NATX 310470. I can't read the placard.
Fromhttp://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ ... irmed.html:

Railway personnel pulled 13 cars intact from the rear of the train at the scene

Jim, the best I could make it out from a couple pictures as 127x, which I would assume as 1270 Petroleum oil.

Well, let's not beat the media up too bad -- they are just the messenger, and they can't get close to the scene themselves and are probably just relying on 2nd hand info...

At this link is an interview with Ed Burkhardt (chairman of MMA), and he says the locomotives came through the fire scene OK and they looked at them, and their brakes were set (at least that is what is sounded like to me). There was no follow up on those points or more details. JS
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=960509" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JS

officials now saying that the 40 people unaccounted for could have been vaporized by the explosion(s). i hope they literally ran for the hills after the first explosion and are too petrified to even walk towards town with the plume of smoke still rising from the crash site as is therefore the reason why they haven't been accounted for.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013 ... osion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My apologies, I misinterpreted what you wrote initially. We're on the same page.

25Hz wrote:

newpylong wrote:Are you for real?

25Hz wrote: Only 2 people confirmed dead from that incident, yet news of half a town wiped out & possibly of 100 dead isn't worthy of coverage. It's all about fearmongering in the US news circuits.

Yes, only 2 people confirmed dead from plane crash. Everyone else alive and accounted for, yet that is what CNN and other US outfits are fixating on.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ ... antic.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Says 2 cars are sill in danger of exploding and are filled with crude oil NOT LPG, LNG or butane. This event is still unfolding and could get a lot worse yet.

The UN Hazardous Material Number List shows crude oil as 1267

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UN ... 01_to_1300" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have read in some sources that there were 5 engines on this train, at one point. Just looking at this from a distance I have generated a bunch of questions surrounding the head end power that might give us some insight into what happened.

1) How many locomotives were on this train?

2) were they uncoupled from the train before the runaway?

3) If they were uncoupled earlier, where are they now? One report quotes Burkhart as saying the engines survived the accident and they have been looked at and the brakes are still set! Where are they?

4) If they were still coupled to the train and were part of the runaway, how come we don't see them in the wreckage, or in any photos anyplace?

5) Word comes that the authorities are investigating this as a "crime scene". Is there any idea as to what kind of crime they think may have taken place here?

And there are lots more than that. How come such a dearth of really important information at this point in time?

SRM

sandyriverman wrote:5) Word comes that the authorities are investigating this as a "crime scene". Is there any idea as to what kind of crime they think may have taken place here?

I don't think they're willing to rule anything out at this point, given the number of deaths, the number of injuries, the amount of property damage, and the lack of a clear/obvious cause for the runaway.

Bangor Daily News wrote:“Every time the Surete (Quebec police) needs to investigate, we need to rule out any foul play,” spokesman Benoit Richard told reporters. “Right now we cannot say it is a criminal act. We can only say we are looking at it as if it was.”

The Portland Press Herald wrote:"We've had a very good safety record for these 10 years," [MMA Chairman Ed Burkhardt] said of the decade-old railroad. "Well, I think we've blown it here."

Source: http://www.pressherald.com/news/Quebec- ... cted-.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;