Official Cape Cod Central Discussion

the amtrak cape era signal system is toast.

Knucklehead wrote:

BenH wrote:

Clean Cab wrote:To help improve the track conditions for this years Boston/Hyannis service, 40,000 new ties are being replaced from Middleboro to Hyannis. The original plan was to do only 9,000 on the Cape. I've not heard of any plans to raise speeds above the current 30 MPH on most of the Cape tracks though.

Replacing 40,000 ties would mean that they replaced about 1/3rd of the ties on the Cape Cod Main. (assuming 3,000 ties/mile and 42 miles of track). That's an impressive number.

Maybe in future years they'll start replacing some of the ancient jointed rail on the Cape with welded rail.

Does anyone know what sections of track (if any) will see increased speeds above 30 mph once the track work is complete? I would expect that the sections with welded rail north of Wareham could be bumped up to Class 3 (60 mph) for passenger trains.

What about the signal system that was installed, but never turned on in the 1980's? Can that be activated at a reasonable cost, or are the components too outdated?

It was never finished, so wasn't in a state where it could be turned on. Most...but not all...of the signal heads/masts on the Middleboro Secondary and Cape Main have been taken down by now. They'd have had to rebuild it as cab signals since the Amtrak install was wayside-only, but at least when they do they've got pre-trenched cable conduits to work with to significantly reduce the amount of digging required.

Safetee wrote:the amtrak cape era signal system is toast.

The state ran out of money to make the wayside signal system work. I remember the signals being lit for a year or two and several attempts to make the system operational. I heard at one time they could clear signals in one direction, but not the other. The system was controlled by a model board in Buzzard's Bay Tower, which has long since disapeared.

Most of the wayside signals are still up on the Cape, but now are rusted monuments to a failed project. The most annoying thing about the $25 million spent in the 1980's to improve conditions for the Amtrak service is that the signal system cost between 10 and 15 million dollars, leaving a rather small amount for track upgrades. Getting rid of the stick rail on the Cape would be a great start. Most of it dates from the 1940's!!!

Well the stick rail never cost anybody any passengers. What I mean is if it was cwr all the way to hyannis, does anybody really think that amtrak would be running there today or the MBTA for that matter.

The 107 rail is actually a pretty good rail section. In fact, very few sperry rails were found in the 107 over the years. Of course theyd didnt have very much traffic over it either. The biggest single problem with the jointed rail was the joint bars. All the bars were replaced in the Amtrak project with new modern bars and new bolts but the contractor over tightened all the bolts. The overtightening stretched the bolts which made them all loose and impossible to retighten. Nobody could come up with the money to fix them until four years ago.

Supposedly CWR will be introduced into the jointed sections over the next couple of years. The question then will be: will the state funding and all the too elusive cape rail passengers be there to take advantage of it.

CWR eliminates continuity problems for signal systems. That's why every passenger line has abandoned stick rail in favor of CWR. Can you imagine how many bond wires there are in just one mile of track? If just a single bond wire breaks, the wayside and cab signal system will not work, causing incredible delays. Although I do agree that 107 rail is a good size and weight, the fact is that no type of rail lasts forever. As I said before, most of the stick rail on the Cape dates from the late 1930's to the 1940's. One important factor is the FRA will not allow passenger trains to travel as fast on stick rail as versus CWR. Especially stick rail that is over 70 years old. Currently the top speed anywhere on the Cape is 30 MPH. Even in the New Haven Railroad days the top speed was 50 MPH and after the tracks were rehabbed for the Amtrak service, speeds never got above 40 MPH. Track speeds could be raised to 60 MPH in some spots with CWR. The one thing that has me worried about the Cape Flyer is the very long amount of time it takes to go from Boston to Hyannis (2 1/2 hours). I know some people who were excited about using the trains that are having second thoughts due to the length of the trip. It is reasons like these that I do hope that the state will commit to replacing the stick rail with CWR sooner rather than later.

Would the tie replacement make for a smoother ride

fl9m2004 wrote:Would the tie replacement make for a smoother ride

As was mentioned above, 40,000 new wooden ties are being installed from Hyannis (including the yard) to Middleboro.

well, there is no doubt that welded rail is wonderful stuff. But my knowledge of the Cape lines leads me to believe that the large number of grade crossings between the bridge and hyannis not to mention summer people a little too near the infrastructure is going to create insurmountable political issues with regard to doubling the track speed.

On the other hand if the cape was going to be a real viable commuter rail world again, I would imagine that a dependable 60 mph network would be required. But lets be honest here Hyannis to Buzzards bay via Sandwich is not exactly a straight line route. And then there is the bridge and all of it's mysteries.

Now Buzzards bay to middleboro, i dont see any problem, except that I hear that Middleboro to South Station is already plugged up with not many cheap solutions in sight.

It's going to take a lot of money and political resolve to make it, Cape Commuter Rail, happen. At a time when there's hardly any money and political resolve can be suicidal.

Given that scenario, what I'm saying is that the lack of CWR on the Cape is not the reason that there is no commuter rail on the cape. It would be nice if it was already in place. But in my opinion it would not be a game changer.

It could be a game changer if the state ever puts a signal system, which they may have to, and very quickly to. The FRA's PTC mandate takes effect in 2015, so if they plan on running any kind of passenger service, the stick rail will have to go.

I agree that the many crossing are a pediment to increasing speeds up to 60 on the Cape. I'd be happy if the speeds could be at least 40 in most areas and 50 in other stretches. As I said before, time may be a real killer for the Cape Flyer. It's hard enough to get people to leave their cars behind, but to have them take a train that is doulble the usual travel time is a real tough sell.

Wonder why they don't use concrete ties instead of wooden ones

$$

That makes sense

Concrete ties cost three times as much as wooden ties.

Didn't know that thanks for telling me