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Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

 #1628706  by Jeff Smith
 
Big bucks getting bigger: Yahoo Finance
Newark Airport’s Train-Project Cost to Balloon Beyond $2 Billion

(Bloomberg) -- The long-awaited project to replace Newark Liberty International Airport’s train system has gotten even more expensive than its original $2 billion price tag.

The AirTrain EWR project, which is designed to replace the existing system that shuttles about 30,000 passengers every day at the airport, is facing “significant increases over the original $2.05 billion estimate,” according to preliminary bond documents provided by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey ahead of a $1.1 billion debt sale.

The bi-state agency that runs much of New York City’s air and seaports has offset the cost increases “through value engineering efforts, by reducing project scope or otherwise deferring or reducing spending on other capital projects,” the documents say, without specifying by how much the project will be over budget.
...
 #1629365  by Allan
 
I wonder what is happening with PATHs planned extension to the airport rail station.
 #1629528  by Ken W2KB
 
Allan wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:12 am I wonder what is happening with PATHs planned extension to the airport rail station.
"“The (airport) Station Access Project is a separate project with a total project cost estimate of $125 million, which the board approved spending on planning in March of 2023,” Pietrykoski said." https://www.nj.com/news/2023/09/cost-to ... utType=amp
 #1629551  by GojiMet86
 
Shoulda extended PATH directly to the airport, with one station serving the 3 terminals through walkways. Or one station for each terminal. Or just use more buses.
 #1629554  by Ken W2KB
 
GojiMet86 wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:25 pm Shoulda extended PATH directly to the airport, with one station serving the 3 terminals through walkways. Or one station for each terminal. Or just use more buses.
It is my recollection reading that the passenger facility fees can be used to fund a significant portion of the monorail since it serves exclusively airport access, but a PATH extension is ineligible as PATH is not exclusively for the airport. "Passenger Facility Charge (PFC) Program allows the collection of PFC fees up to $4.50 for every eligible passenger at commercial airports controlled by public agencies. PFCs are capped at $4.50 per flight segment with a maximum of two PFCs charged on a one-way trip or four PFCs on a round trip, for a maximum of $18 total. Airports use these fees to fund FAA-approved projects that enhance safety, security, or capacity; reduce noise; or increase air carrier competition."
 #1629621  by pumpers
 
The new South Ward station will essentially just be a new access point (from the northwest side of the tracks, i.e. Frelinghuysen Ave) to the existing EWR platforms, is that right?

What I hadn't thought of until just now reading the above link and links in that is that if/when PATH ever makes it to EWR, south ward Newark residents will have a "one seat ride" to lower Manhattan, not just to Penn Station. I think it's great that NJT $$ are being spent for the locals in south Newark to have convenient rail access to job centers, not just those in the more upperclass suburbs.
 #1629952  by alewifebp
 
One of the key issues is the future state of the airport itself. With the new terminal A in place, eventually, the terribly aged and inadequate terminal B will also be replaced. And given how long that will take, by that time, terminal C will also be need a replacement. The entrance points to each terminal will also change. Current plans show a very long walkway from terminal C to the new station. It's going to be less than ideal for some time. That future movement of terminal locations will also prelude the ability to extend PATH to each terminal.
 #1634425  by Head-end View
 
GojiMet86 wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:25 pm Shoulda extended PATH directly to the airport, with one station serving the 3 terminals through walkways. Or one station for each terminal. Or just use more buses.
Should do what SEPTA did at Philadelphia Airport. Extend the rail line into the Airport with a stop at each major terminal. :-D
 #1634891  by Tom V
 
Allan wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:12 am I wonder what is happening with PATHs planned extension to the airport rail station.
The Port Authority, citing reduced revenues due to COVID and slow return to office, has decided to kick it out of it's current ten-year capital plan and put it in the next ten-year capital plan. The current plan runs through 2026. Instead, they are moving ahead with opening up the Airlink station on the NEC to the public, with street access and parking. And building a new Airtrain, which is also desperately needed. The Port Authority needs to spearhead something with NJ Transit and perhaps Amtrak to help with the cuurent crowds and novice transit riders with luggage.

My concerns, Saturday afternoon I took a semi express (skipped Rahway, Linden, North Elizabeth, Elizabeth) NEC train from Princeton Jct. to NY Penn. The train was already packed when we got to the airport, the platforms at the airport were packed with tons of people with luggage. Many of whom were probably using the connection for the first time. Adding more people to the airport station by opening it up to the public is going to make for a miserable experience for those trying to get a seat on the train with luggage. There were tons more people getting on at Newark Penn, probably connections from the RVL, and then it was mind bogglingly crowded (standing room only in the bilevels) when we got to Secaucus where all the Bergen/Main line passengers tried to squeeze in. I realize it's the holidays, and Saturday was Santa Con, but this is an ongoing issue for years.

A direct PATH connection to the airport would alleviate many issues, most importantly since the trains would originate at the airport travelers would be able to get a seat. Second, it would offer way more frequency. There are inconsistent gaps in current NJ Transit service from the airport to NY Penn, sometimes there's only a 5-minute gap between trains and other times there is a 30–45-minute gap. Ideally, during peak hours, there would be no more than a 15-minute wait for a train to take someone from NY Penn from EWR.

If we're putting PATH extension on hold that leaves us with NJ Transit and Amtrak. How can the current experience be improved short term and long term.

Long term, obviously there's Gateway which will increase the number of trains into Manhattan for NJ Transit (and Amtrak). And then there are the new Bilevel EMUs, which is an increase in seats over current Bilevel sets and Arrow IIIs. It's possible, after Gateway opened, that NJ Transit could originate some trains at the airport. Perhaps 3 car Bilevel EMU sets, with stops at Newark Penn, Secaucus and NY Penn. If not, perhaps they could go with the idea our former poster Jtgshu had, he called it the Rahway rocket?

Short term, while waiting for Gateway, what can be done. First, I think there are opportunities to increase service from the current schedule. Heading to NY Penn, Weekdays, there are 4 trains during the 5am hour, 3 trains during the 6am hour, 3 at the 7am hour, 4 trains at the 8am hour. However, 2 of the trains at the 8am hour are only 4 minutes apart. I think there should be a minimum of 4 trains per hour at EWR to NY Penn, and not 4 minutes apart but better spread out. Changes might mean that some trains that are express and currently skip the airport should add the stop.

Next, what about NJ Transit keeping the last, or first cars, of a train closed off until they reach the airport. And having signage, lines painted on the platform (in many languages) and staff directly those boarding at the airport to board those cars that up until that point were closed off. Those cars would obviously accommodate the airport travelers, giving them a chance to get a seat, and those boarding at Newark Penn and Secaucus.

The last idea is to work out a deal with Amtrak to pick up certain passengers. Perhaps the Port Authority could provide a subsidy, tickets bought in the Airport terminals would be able to be redeemed for travel on NJ Transit or Amtrak to NY Penn. This wouldn't be available to those not coming from the airport terminals. Or the airlines could sell these tickets themselves.

From NY Penn to Newark Airport that is going to need the new station to be built. The situation is terribly crowded on the platforms, stairs/escalators and Penn station is miserable with no seats.
 #1635109  by Allan
 
"The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey today announced that it has selected Doppelmayr, a market leader in cable-propelled transport systems, in the first phase of a multi-phase procurement process to replace the existing AirTrain system at Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR)"

https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/e ... rd-wi.html

Cable propelled??
 #1635117  by hrsn
 
Doppelmayr built the cable-propelled Oakland Airport Connector, which is a reason PANYNJ chose them to build something similar.
 #1635141  by STrRedWolf
 
Allan wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:19 am "The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey today announced that it has selected Doppelmayr, a market leader in cable-propelled transport systems, in the first phase of a multi-phase procurement process to replace the existing AirTrain system at Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR)"

https://www.panynj.gov/port-authority/e ... rd-wi.html

Cable propelled??
I'm assuming a modern-day version of the San Francisco cable cars.

That said... I was kinda of curious as to what construction and replacement bus service would look like... and actually it's not that bad. There's an access road...

And any route is spagetti...
 #1635184  by ExCon90
 
I've never ridden the Oakland Airport Connector, but from observation it appears to be a simple end-to-end operation -- essentially a horizontal funicular, with two cars permanently attached to the ends of the cable. If so, the longer the distance the longer the headway*, and there could be only one airport station unless there's going to be a separate connector for each terminal. There would seem to be some complexities here.

* In Oakland the distance between BART and the airport terminal appears to be quite short.
 #1635257  by Ken W2KB
 
"Specifically, during peak service, the system would operate with 3-minute headways, thereby
resulting in 20 trains per hour. During off-peak service and nightly maintenance periods, the system would run
with 4-minute headways, thereby resulting in 15 trains per hour" https://www.panynj.gov/content/dam/port ... es-A-D.pdf
 #1635330  by amtrakowitz
 
Head-end View wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 7:25 pm
GojiMet86 wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:25 pmShoulda extended PATH directly to the airport, with one station serving the three terminals through walkways. Or one station for each terminal. Or just use more buses.
Should do what SEPTA did at Philadelphia Airport. Extend the rail line into the Airport with a stop at each major terminal. :-D
Frankly, with a budget of $2 billion, that’s more than enough dough to do that with the PATH train, even to use PATH cars as circulators between terminals and parking. But instead pay for play wins again, it seems.