New York, Westchester & Boston NYW&B Main Thread

[Jeff Smith]

There is one other section of the NY W & B besides the 5 line in service, though sporadically. Down off of Oak Point Yard near Harlem River is a freight customer called S&S soap. They get about 1 covered hopper a month. The catenary bridges are still intact above their spur.

That's great info, didn't know that. Does anyone know why they took out the connection to the NEC at 180th St.? They could probably have put a subway line in there and over the Hells Gate to Queens and Manhattan via the 7 or N/R.

Although the Hell's Gate was never part of the NYW&B (maybe that would have made a difference), I'm curious as to what trackage is in place over it. Did they take out a couple of tracks? What about the Queens trackage from Hell's Gate to Sunnyside? How many tracks?

By the way, since you are obviously a beer connoisseur and have great taste, I before E except after C and in the German Language: WARSTEINER HEFE WEISSE. I take no responsibility for my American spelling. I love that beer! You obviously have good taste.

Or as we say auf Deutsch, Du hast gut Geschmack. Bitte ein Warsteiner Herr Kellner!

[Dieter]

NOCH MAL!!!

[Otto Vondrak]

There are currently no proposals to put rapid transit on the Hell Gate Bridge. You may wish to ask your Hell Gate question in a new thread, however.

-otto-

[Jeff Smith]

There are currently no proposals to put rapid transit on the Hell Gate Bridge. You may wish to ask your Hell Gate question in a new thread, however.

-otto-

Thanks, I may. It was a related part of a question of taking out the connection at 180th St. to the NEC, but it may definitely be worth a new thread. Maybe after Xmas.

Best to all, see you in a week.

[Noel Weaver]

There is one other section of the NY W & B besides the 5 line in service, though sporadically. Down off of Oak Point Yard near Harlem River is a freight customer called S&S soap. They get about 1 covered hopper a month. The catenary bridges are still intact above their spur.

Interesting that this place still exists, I remember switching this outfit in
the 1960's. The track in question was used by the NYW&B but it was a
part of and owned by the New Haven.
The part of the former NYW&B between 174th Street (West Farms) and
180th Street no longer exists as a connection and at least a good part of
the bridge work has been removed. I made one of the very last if not the
last move over this connection back in the 1970's when I piloted a Sperry
car over the line from Penn Station to 180th Street to deliver to the TA.
The connecting switch at 174th Street was spiked and clamped out of
service at that time but the M of W people were called out to make it
useable for the above move. The connecting switch was removed for all
time soon after.
Noel Weaver

[Jeff Smith]

There is one other section of the NY W & B besides the 5 line in service, though sporadically. Down off of Oak Point Yard near Harlem River is a freight customer called S&S soap. They get about 1 covered hopper a month. The catenary bridges are still intact above their spur.

Interesting that this place still exists, I remember switching this outfit in
the 1960's. The track in question was used by the NYW&B but it was a
part of and owned by the New Haven.
The part of the former NYW&B between 174th Street (West Farms) and
180th Street no longer exists as a connection and at least a good part of
the bridge work has been removed. I made one of the very last if not the
last move over this connection back in the 1970's when I piloted a Sperry
car over the line from Penn Station to 180th Street to deliver to the TA.
The connecting switch at 174th Street was spiked and clamped out of
service at that time but the M of W people were called out to make it
useable for the above move. The connecting switch was removed for all
time soon after.
Noel Weaver

That must have been incredible. Mr. Weaver, I really enjoy reading your posts, and your knowledge of fallen flags, operations, etc. I'm in my mid-40's, but when I talk about railroads, I feel like a kid all over. I'm just glad I got to see the stub ends of the Put in action before they were gone. Some day, someone will invent a time machine, and we can go back and ride the NYW&B, and maybe I'll get to ride it as a young man with my dad.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for sharing your experiences with us. It is most appreciated.

[fishtale]

well by these standards i am but a young babe in the woods. maybe someone can help a young buck out..

my question actually has to do with the new york & portchester. some of you may have seen the picture of the one small bridge that was constructed for this railroad in harrison. the picture is in roger arcara's book- and probably elsewhere as well. does anyone know where exactly this is? i'm hoping it still exists, although i wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. this past weekend i drove/walked around harrison looking for remnants of this bridge and the nyw&b. i didn't find any clues and satellite imaging is getting me nowhere. the one place i haven't checked at all is in saxon woods....i've got a feeling it might be around there (although i'm not sure if that's technically harrison). otherwise, i'm also thinking it could be alongside the hutch in the north street area...

well if anyone can steer me right i would appreciate it.

now that i mention it, i wonder if anyone might also have any leads on the west st nyw&b station? where it was exactly, what it looked like, etc? from the looks of it the nyw&b ran directly alongside the new haven near west st, and alongside the west st bridge there are several pieces of concrete which could have been part of a platform...

i also present this for your viewing pleasure (taken on halloween at rye station)....

[Otto Vondrak]

fishtale: the New York & Portchester bridge is located behind the Rye Neck High School off Boston Post Road. Drive around to the back, the bridge spans a creek between the school and a new housing complex. A wall has been added to the bridge mid-span, probably to discourage anyone from walking across and disturbing the new neighbors. The "NY&PRR" engraving is only on one side of the bridge. This is the only tangible construction ever completed by the railroad, most likely to fulfill a franchise requirement.

Regarding West Street-Harrison station, the station was located at... West Street. The bridge over the former NYWB two-track right of way has been filled in, but you can see where rock was blasted to make room for two tracks and an island platform. Stations were wooden platforms along the Port Chester extension. There may have been a small building at street level to house a ticket agent and fare control, off of Bentay Drive. Look at the four-track main, and you'll see where the catenary spans are wider.

-otto-
http://nywbry.com/

[Otto Vondrak]

To find the NY&P bridge, type in "tulip tree lane, harrison, ny" into Google maps. Then go to hybrid view and scroll all the way in. You'll see the houses, the school, and the bridge in between- in all its four-track glory. Looks like a slanted "I" with the addition of the wall at mid-span. To best view the bridge, approach from the school side, since the other side is in someone's backyard.

The area is very overgrown now, and looks little like what was shown in Arcara's books of yore.

-otto-

[Jeff Smith]

To find the NY&P bridge, type in "tulip tree lane, harrison, ny" into Google maps. Then go to hybrid view and scroll all the way in. You'll see the houses, the school, and the bridge in between- in all its four-track glory. Looks like a slanted "I" with the addition of the wall at mid-span. To best view the bridge, approach from the school side, since the other side is in someone's backyard.

The area is very overgrown now, and looks little like what was shown in Arcara's books of yore.

-otto-

Google Earth is a great resource, too. There is a free version as well as some professional versions, but the free version is more than adequate.

You used to be able to get to the bridge from Harrison Ave, and I knew a few kids who would take that back route to school (or bring their girlfriends there - who, me?), but like Otto said, it's private property now. The bridge was built, but never used for any railroad. I think I remember seeing maps of the ROW, might have been the Arcara book, showing the road running down to Throgs Neck, maybe along the Bruckner.

There's still a few bridges left of the NYW&B you can see. Most are road overpasses, some with platform remnants underneath, but there is one bridge that actually carried the railroad left on Pelhamdale Ave, I think.

[Otto Vondrak]

The NY&P took a zig-zg route on either side of Boston Post Road to get from the Bronx to Port Chester... similar to the NYW&B before they became aligned with the New Haven. NY&P had two planned branches- one to Clason's Point and Throgg's Neck, one to 177th Street (to connect with another subway line being built at the time). The mainline was to run to Willis Avenue, to make a direct physical connection with the subway, allowing "through" service into New York.

[fishtale]

wow thanks for all the info guys. that saved me a great deal of exploration...though it is enlightening in its own respect.

for some reason i hadn't even considered that the ny&p would follow the post road. i was hung up placing it somewhere to the west/north of the nyw&b. makes more sense for it to go closer to the water though.

so i guess the next question is, otto, how do you know about the planned route of the ny&p? i've done a little searching and don't think there is a book. i'm almost positive arcara's book doesn't contain that info. you are a font of information so maybe you just "know," but i'd be interested to know if any book (or more likely chapter of a book) adresses the ny&p.

nice to hear the personal stories relating to the railroads too...

[eehiv]

I have to add this to the discussion on the bridge off Tulip Tree Lane. About 10 years ago I was invited to a luncheon at a co-worker's home at something like 11 Tulip Tree Lane. I remember being on the back porch and turning around to see the bridge - quite a shock as the home I was standing in was in the planned right of way.

I recognized it immediately from the old NYW&B book. Made a copy of the photo from the book and gave it to the young son of my colleague.

EH

[Otto Vondrak]

By way of the good ol' railfan network, I was put in touch with a fellow who had in his posession various materials related to the Westchester. Included were two thesis papers from 1953 and 1965 that explained our favorite railroad in great detail. One had a map of the proposed NY&P that was copied from an issue of the Electric Railway Journal of 1901 or so. I used that map as the basis for my own map to appear in a book later in 2007.

Of course, since the railroad was only proposed, who knows if the maps are accurrate or not. One thing, the bridge as built over the creek does not correspond to the map for the "proposed" route to be taken through Harrison. This was either caused by an overenthusiastic mapmaker of 1900, or perhaps there was a change in routing over the years, or perhaps the map is only a generalization of the route, not showing every zig and zag.

-otto-

[Jeff Smith]

By way of the good ol' railfan network, I was put in touch with a fellow who had in his posession various materials related to the Westchester. Included were two thesis papers from 1953 and 1965 that explained our favorite railroad in great detail. One had a map of the proposed NY&P that was copied from an issue of the Electric Railway Journal of 1901 or so. I used that map as the basis for my own map to appear in a book later in 2007.

Of course, since the railroad was only proposed, who knows if the maps are accurrate or not. One thing, the bridge as built over the creek does not correspond to the map for the "proposed" route to be taken through Harrison. This was either caused by an overenthusiastic mapmaker of 1900, or perhaps there was a change in routing over the years, or perhaps the map is only a generalization of the route, not showing every zig and zag.

-otto-

Sign me up for that book! Are the thesis papers available to the public? I bet they are an interesting read.