Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

  by Martin Baumann
 
PATH currently have an additional 72 PA-5 on order. How many A cars and how many B cars?
  by Head-end View
 
Seems like nobody cares enough about PATH anymore, to even answer your question. No one commented on my post about the new signal aspects either. I guess once the PA-5's were all in-service and front-window views were gone forever, that was the effective end of PATH railfanning. :(
  by amtrakhogger
 
My 2 cents. It would appear that the new signals are a type of
“Go, no go” somewhat like Metro-North and trains are governed
by CBTC in cab. FWIK, Railfanning PATH is practically illegal since
you can’t even take pictures.
  by Head-end View
 
I can do lots of railfanning without taking photos. There are plenty of PATH photos in books and train magazines. In fact their ban has only been enforced during certain periods in history including the current post-911 era. During World War II, my Dad actually was told to stop taking pictures of the Passaic River lift bridges from the Harrison Station platform.

But in about 1990, I took photos from the front window of a PA-4 train. A very friendly conductor did ask me why I was doing so, but was satisfied when I explained it was for personal railfanning and not for commercial or legal purposes. And I continued my photography after a good conversation with him. :-)
  by Ken W2KB
 
amtrakhogger wrote: FWIK, Railfanning PATH is practically illegal since you can’t even take pictures.
It is perfectly legal to photograph PATH where it operates above ground, from the tunnel portal in Jersey City to the end of track in Newark, as long as the photographs are not taken while standing on PATH property. So long as the photographer is on non-PATH property open to the public, such as a sidewalk, or on private property with permission of the owner, photography cannot be prohibited.
  by MattW
 
It's legal to do it ON PATH property, just because they're idiots and don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't.
  by Head-end View
 
If I remember right, the Port Authority which owns PATH has a specific regulation requiring you to obtain a permit from them to take photos or do filming on their property. Railroads can and do make their own rules for conduct on their property which is not legally considered public property, even if it is a government owned railroad.
  by Ken W2KB
 
Well, no, it is not legal unless the photographer is in compliance with PATH regulations governing photography including permits, accompaniment by a PATH employee, etc. As a property owner, the regulations of this government entity are enforceable. "IX. Photography and similar activity. A. The taking or making of photographs of any portion of the PATH system is prohibited except as provided herein." For the complete regulation, see: https://www.panynj.gov/path/pdf/PATH-Ru ... -20-15.pdf
  by MattW
 
Amtrak fought the same battle and lost. Just no one's taken PATH to court to be smacked down yet.
  by andrewjw
 
The Port Authority is an interstate compact, and has significantly more rule-making ability than does Amtrak, which is just a corporation.
  by Terry Kennedy
 
I've been on PA property to take permitted photographs many times since 9/11 and have only had an escort once, and that was for the JFK Airtrain before opening. That was because I had complete freedom on the property, including under cars in the shop and they probably wanted to make sure I didn't kill myself. All other times they just told me to limit myself to the areas I had requested. I've had engineers / conductors ask me if I had permission and I answered yes. They never asked to see the documentation I was given. Here's some sample pictures. EDIT: Well, there would be pictures except I'm getting a bogus "It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image." which is preventing me from submitting the reply. So you'll just have to click on each of the links to see the picture. Well worth it, IMHO.

Monday, November 24, 2003 - early AM before the first train with commuters arrived at WTC the day it re-opened to the public:
Picture

Heading toward Exchange Place from WTC, looking out the front door with the window sash dropped (a good way to get wet):
Picture

Heading towards WTC, just outside of Exchange Place, June 2003 inspection tour:
Picture

JFK Airtrain Operations Center, pre-opening, August 24, 2002:
Picture

Don't get me wrong - the PA can definitely be a total pain to deal with. But it isn't the impenetrable wall often described here.
  by Martin Baumann
 
Martin Baumann wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:07 pm PATH currently have an additional 72 PA-5 on order. How many A cars and how many B cars?
According to

https://www.nyctransitforums.com/topic/ ... /#comments

the new cars will all be C cars (no cab). I incorrectly called them B cars in the original post. I assume they will be 5220 to 5291 when built
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Martin Baumann wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:31 amthe new cars will all be C cars (no cab). I incorrectly called them B cars.
PATH has never had "B" cars. When the 162 PA1s were ordered in January 1964, the original order was 120 A-B pairs and 42 "C" trailers. The configuration was changed shortly afterward to 110 "A" units (single units, single ended) and 52 "C" trailers (motorized), to provide for operational flexibility and due to tight corners at Henderson Shop that might restrict paired sets.

The first three pilot cars, A units 600 and 601 with C trailer 100 were built in late 1964 and delivered from St. Louis in January 1965.
  by Terry Kennedy
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:44 pm The first three pilot cars, A units 600 and 601 with C trailer 100 were built in late 1964 and delivered from St. Louis in January 1965.
I believe those were used to confirm tunnel clearances (prior to the order, a wood dummy mockup was run through the tunnels and the bench sidewall chipped out in places like the Morton St. curves where there were impact problems). They didn't get them all - prior to CBTC if late-night service was running on the opposite track heading west into Grove St. and then crossing to normal toward the portal, if you proceeded at the speed allowed by the crossover signalling, the tail cars of the train could actually scrape the wall between the tracks (since the indication on the normal track was green, the train could speed up and have enough body roll to scrape).

The PA-series cars were also the reason the one-way crossover just west of 9th St. was taken up - trains of earlier cars had no problem, but it was too tight for PA-series cars (the track is in rings all the way up to 12th St. and they didn't want to take rings out). I don't think that was the reason for taking up the 19th St. crossover but I might be mistaken.