• New Haven DL-109 Class?

  • Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.
Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.

Moderator: Alcoman

  by SSW9389
An Alco fan and researcher here. The New Haven DL-109s were delivered as three classes: DER-1a, DER-1b, and DER-1c. What is the difference(s) between the classes?

I see from an old RR magazine roster that the DER-1a units were lighter by about 5,000 pounds than the later two classes. Was there an electrical difference between the classes?

This question was also posted to the New Haven Fallen Flag site of this forum.

Ed in Kentucky
  by SSW9389
Does anyone have gross weights and tractive efforts for the GM&O and Southern DL-100 units? The New Haven units appear to be somewhat heavier than other railroad's DL-100 units.

Ed in Kentucky
  by SSW9389
Extra 2200 South #37 p.19 shows the six New Haven orders were all delivered with 64:19 gears and GE-726F1 traction motors. That same issue showed the gross weights for the GM&O and Southern units. The war baby DL-100s were heavier than their prewar counterparts.
  by SSW9389
From Randy Hammill and the New Haven Historical Society Archives:
The DL-109s classifications are a great example of the inconsistency of the New Haven.

First of all, when the majority of the DL-109s were delivered the New Haven Railroad didn't have diesel classifications

Prior to the introduction of diesel classes (DER-1, etc) there were only two classes:
6-30-45 Summary of Equipment:
0700-0709: 10
0710-0759: 50

Between then and prior to rebuilding project, there were 4 classes of DL-109's:

From the 9-30-45 Summary of Equipment, the first with diesel classifications:
DER-1: 0700-0709 (10)
DER-1a: 0710-0719 (10)
DER-1b: 0720-0729 (10)
DER-1c: 0730-0759 (30)

It's the DER-1 class that was lighter than the DER-1a/b/c classes.

Some plans I've located note the DER-1 locomotives were reclassed as DER-1a c 1947-9 (I don't have the exact date within reach), although the reclassification was done several years after the actual changes that were noted were completed.

The Summary of Equipment didn't change until 6-30-49 and they retained these classes thereafter, so it seems to be related to the rebuilding with screens, etc.:

DER-1: Not listed
DER-1a: 0700-0709 (10)
DER-1b: 0710-0749 (40)
DER-1c: 0750-0759 (10)

The 4-24-49 engine assignment book has the same classes as the 9-30-45 to 3-31-49 Summary of Equipment.

Oddly, starting with the 9-25-49 engine assignment book and through the 1953 engine assignment book they are classified differently than the Summary of Equipment as noted by Mr. Statkowski above (which I don't have...hint, hint).

So the engine assignment books list DER-1, DER-1a, and DER-1b, while at the same time the Summary of Equipment is listing DER-1a, DER-1b, and DER-1c. And it's not just that the class numbers listed are different, but they notate different locomotives in each class:

Late '49+ Engine Assignment:
DER-1: 0700-0709 (10)
DER-1a: 0710-0719 (10)
DER-1b: 0720-0759 (40)

vs. Late '49+ Summary of Equipment
DER-1a: 0700-0709 (10)
DER-1b: 0710-0749 (40)
DER-1c: 0750-0759 (10)

I don't have any engine assignment or Summaries of Equipment later than 1952 so I can't comment on any changes beyond these.

The DER-1 and DER-1a have the same general roofline, with the exception of the addition of the square winterizing hatches over the fans (I haven't found definitive overhead shots to verify all of the components). These were added to the DER-1 and original equipment on the DER-1a. The DER-1b and -1c were delivered with the simplified roofline, with the addition of globe vents on the DER-1c only, I think.

I've also found some other differences on plans between the DER-1 and -1a, such as oil capacity, and the oil or water pump if I recall.

A difference that apparently warranted modification was that the clearance from the frame to the rail was difference between the DER-1 and DER-1a. The plan shows that the DER-1 locomotives were modified c1945 but reclassified c1947-9. I can't find my notes with the exact dates, but Dave Peters has the plans in his collection. These might

Obviously these reclassifications weren't notated in all of the other paperwork.

Externally, the main difference between the DER-1b and DER-1c classes are the number of small louvres on the side, below the belt rail, and the small wings on the nose. The DER-1c also had the globe vents on the roof as delivered. I don't believe any of the other classes did, and these were later removed.

Another visual oddity to note. All of the locomotives that received the Hunter Green and Warm Orange paint scheme were entirely converted to the DER-1c external appearance (minus the globe vents). For those that were originally DER-1b (#0738) it meant the addition of the extra louvre in each group on the sides. But the DER-1 and DER-1a classes not only received the louvres and the small vents in the nose, but also the simplified roofline and lost their extra roof vents.

I haven't had much time recently, but once I started digging I found more questions than I did answers...

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1953 | http://newbritainstation.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by Allen Hazen
(Note that SSW9389's post above, with the information from Randy Hammill, was also posted to the New Haven forum. There is further discussion there.)