Milwaukee-Madison High speed rail line

The Milwaukee Fox News has announced an high speed rail project from Milwaukee to Madison in the state of Wisconsin.

Watch this at this website.

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-100113 ... 3306.story

Sylvain727 wrote: The Milwaukee Fox News has announced an high speed rail project from Milwaukee to Madison in the state of Wisconsin.

Watch this at this website.

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-100113 ... 3306.story

First, I suspect anything said by Fox.

What is their definition of "High Speed"?

100 mph would probably be fast enough for that route. The cost of "true" high speed would not be justified by the likely ridership.

george matthews wrote:

Sylvain727 wrote: The Milwaukee Fox News has announced an high speed rail project from Milwaukee to Madison in the state of Wisconsin.

Watch this at this website.

http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-100113 ... 3306.story

First, I suspect anything said by Fox.

What is their definition of "High Speed"?

100 mph would probably be fast enough for that route. The cost of "true" high speed would not be justified by the likely ridership.

Agree. As usual for news outlets, short on specifics. Though that $817 million is an eyebrow raising amount. 85 miles is too short for true high speed (over 140mph) rail. 100-125mph would be adequate. Off the cuff, spend $500-600 million to make grade separations, install PTC, and run 110mph three or four car DMU trainsets.

Agree. As usual for news outlets, short on specifics. Though that $817 million is an eyebrow raising amount. 85 miles is too short for true high speed (over 140mph) rail. 100-125mph would be adequate. Off the cuff, spend $500-600 million to make grade separations, install PTC, and run 110mph three or four car DMU trainsets.

That is exactly what I would like to see. I go to Madison occasionally, and that is what I would like to ride to get there.

First, I suspect anything said by Fox.

Hmmm....and would you say CNN or MSNBC is so much better and more 'reliable'??

Hmmm....and would you say CNN or MSNBC is so much better and more 'reliable'??

Fortunately, I don't live in the US and can't watch them.

i would think its a worldwide thing that television news is degenerating into a enter/ info / mercial joke .Thank god for the internet . what really p's me off is that here , theyve decided even the weather must be entertaining . never mind those of us that need to actually know what the weather may do . again , internet met sites to the rescue .

Back to the maidson - mil route , i would think frequency and ease of use would actually be more of a drawcard than high speed . though of course higher speeds mean more frequencies can be offered with the same amount of equipment .

Back to the maidson - mil route , i would think frequency and ease of use would actually be more of a drawcard than high speed . though of course higher speeds mean more frequencies can be offered with the same amount of equipment .

It should be faster than the bus. An hour to Milwaukee and another hour to Chicago would transform the transport of the area. And of course more often than once a day. It wouldn't be worth improving the track to run fewer than one train an hour. At that frequency electrification might be worth doing. Madison is exactly the sort of place that ought to have regular rail transport.

kaitoku wrote:Off the cuff, spend $500-600 million to make grade separations, install PTC, and run 110mph three or four car DMU trainsets.

With Talgos already on order for the Chicago - Milwaukee Hiawatha service, you can bet this service will use Talgos as well.

Matt Johnson wrote:

kaitoku wrote:Off the cuff, spend $500-600 million to make grade separations, install PTC, and run 110mph three or four car DMU trainsets.

With Talgos already on order for the Chicago - Milwaukee Hiawatha service, you can bet this service will use Talgos as well.

Yes, 110 mph design speed with Talgos the likely equipment. The preliminary engineering calls for a number of curves with a 6- or 7-inch cant deficiency so they need a train that tilts. Frequency will be six round trips per day Madison-Milwaukee-Chicago. Four more trips per day will be added if/when service is extended to St. Paul.

But not many grade separations. Most crossings will continue to be at grade.

Wisconsin is hoping for one year for final engineering and two years for construction with service to begin in the first quarter of 2013. Initial speeds may be 79 mph until CP installs PTC (mandated by Jan. 1, 2016).

Are we to take that the high cost (by "high" I mean: they'll pay the same per mile for this upgrade as the French pay for new track) is because they have to bring in a totally new signalling equipment. That costs an arm and a leg. Normally for speeds above 160 km/h you need computerised signalling (at least that's an absolute demand in Europe). Which is why many Euro-countries wince at the idea of upgrading lines to just over 160 km/h. It brings them little compared to the huge sunk costs. That said...

...the previous argumend is conditioned on main railway lines (in Germany, France, Britain...) where regional trains normally do 120-140 km/h. If the pre-existant tracks are much slower than that then raising the speed to close to 200 km/h might indeed justify the investment. Does anyone know how fast the trains Milwaukee-Madison currently travel?

Does anyone know how fast the trains Milwaukee-Madison currently travel?

It's just a freight route.

priamos wrote:Does anyone know how fast the trains Milwaukee-Madison currently travel?

Half the route is CP line from Milwaukee to Watertown. The Empire Builder currently travels that segment at up to 79 mph. Milwaukee to Pewaukee is double-tracked, but the second track has been removed between Pewaukee and Watertown. It will be replaced to increase capacity.

The other half from Watertown to Madison is single track Class 1 (10 mph). It will be completely removed and replaced. About 4 miles of the route sinks into the Deansville Marsh. Plans are to elevate that section on piles. Going from a sinking 10 mph track to an elevated 110 mph track is going to take some work.

jstolberg wrote:The other half from Watertown to Madison is single track Class 1 (10 mph). It will be completely removed and replaced. About 4 miles of the route sinks into the Deansville Marsh. Plans are to elevate that section on piles. Going from a sinking 10 mph track to an elevated 110 mph track is going to take some work.

Thanks for this update. It looks like the part of the line from Watertown to Madison is an "upgrade" in name only. (Or, put more plainly, they benefit from an existing right of way so they don't have to get into a lengthy process of acquisitions and expropriations...) They basically have to redo it from scratch.

Do you know if the plan is to have continunous service from Madison to Milwaukee at 110 mph? I ask because the Acela Express was initially announced to have a quite high Vmax, and it took me some time to realise that it only does the top speed on a tiny bit of its route.

priamos wrote:

jstolberg wrote:The other half from Watertown to Madison is single track Class 1 (10 mph). It will be completely removed and replaced. About 4 miles of the route sinks into the Deansville Marsh. Plans are to elevate that section on piles. Going from a sinking 10 mph track to an elevated 110 mph track is going to take some work.

Thanks for this update. It looks like the part of the line from Watertown to Madison is an "upgrade" in name only. (Or, put more plainly, they benefit from an existing right of way so they don't have to get into a lengthy process of acquisitions and expropriations...) They basically have to redo it from scratch.

Do you know if the plan is to have continunous service from Madison to Milwaukee at 110 mph? I ask because the Acela Express was initially announced to have a quite high Vmax, and it took me some time to realise that it only does the top speed on a tiny bit of its route.

I wish I knew that. I believe Madison-Watertown is planned to be 110mph as far as allowed by geometry. The segment shared with CP is likely not to be faster than 79 mph until PTC is rolled out on the entire CP system, because CP would have to refit the cabs for *every single train crossing the segment*. Given the favorable geometry I'd expect them to target 110mph operations along as much as possible.