• Mexico City Metro elevated subway section collapses, 23 killed so far

  • General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

Moderators: mtuandrew, gprimr1

  by eolesen
 
Yep, although I will say that bridge collapses themselves are fairly rare events. Most happen due to either weather or an accident undermining a support, or overloading.

It's pretty rare for a true structural failure to happen. The only case I can think of in North America that wasn't during construction was the pedestrian bridge that collapsed in Florida right after installation across the highway it was crossing. That was ultimately ruled as bad math in overcalculating the strength that the bridge could handle, and was not related to construction or skimping. The engineers knew they had a problem as soon as the span was under load, but grossly underestimated the danger it posed.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
eolesen wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:46 pm The only case I can think of in North America that wasn't during construction was the pedestrian
bridge that collapsed in Florida right after installation across the highway it was crossing.
Also I-35W bridge in Minneapolis and the NYS Thruway at Schoharie Creek (1987), along with
the Silver Bridge on the Ohio River (1967), which led the the USDOT National Bridge Inspection
Standard.
  by STrRedWolf
 
electricron wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:50 pm
eolesen wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:45 pm You can try to blame the construction company or shoddy welding, but don't forget there were inspectors who signed off on it, and the agency's own inspectors should have laid eyes on the failed structure daily. This didn't happen without warning signs.
Just like there are warning signs with viaducts, or bridges if you prefer, in the rest of the world in the last 5 years including ;
Russia, Mexico, Canada, Italy, France, China, England, Brazil, India, United States, Indonesia, Chile, Romania, Myanmar, Columbia, Chez Republic, Greece, Israel, South Africa, and Kenya.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... %93present
Many of these nations made the list more than once. I do not recall any President, Premier, Governor, Mayor, or other career politician being blamed for the failures.

My point is that politicians do not build anything, they con us the taxpayers to pay some contractor to build bridges or viaducts, at the cheapest prices possible. They pay some inspector, either a public and/or private employee, to do all the inspections. All they do is choose the contractor building the specific infrastructure - usually to the lowest bidder. It is not a scenario limited to just Mexico.
Here's an added factor: The politician was pushing to have it done before his time in office was up, which meant everyone was pushed to approve it. The line was signed off only an hour before it was publicly opened... and yet problems persist.

To your point: Usually a politician would get the local transit agency to do the job, take the credit for it, but is otherwise hands off. THIS politician had his hands all over it.

Agreed that the investigation would be to prevent it from happening again. But in this case, the politician's the problem here... or a major contributing factor.
  by electricron
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:42 am Here's an added factor: The politician was pushing to have it done before his time in office was up, which meant everyone was pushed to approve it. The line was signed off only an hour before it was publicly opened... and yet problems persist.

To your point: Usually a politician would get the local transit agency to do the job, take the credit for it, but is otherwise hands off. THIS politician had his hands all over it.

Agreed that the investigation would be to prevent it from happening again. But in this case, the politician's the problem here... or a major contributing factor.
Did he design the railroad? Did he construct the railroad? Did he inspect the railroad? Did he do more than break ground with a gold, silver, or chrome plated shovel and have his picture taken? I do not think it is a criminal offense for any politician, in an administration office or not, to encourage public construction projects be built on time and on budget.
  by STrRedWolf
 
electricron wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:59 am Did he design the railroad? Did he construct the railroad? Did he inspect the railroad? Did he do more than break ground with a gold, silver, or chrome plated shovel and have his picture taken? I do not think it is a criminal offense for any politician, in an administration office or not, to encourage public construction projects be built on time and on budget.
From the article and from what I hear from local sources, it would of been built on time and on budget had the politician not pushed it hard and heavy.

...oh, and still up and running, of course. ;)
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:30 am Also I-35W bridge in Minneapolis and the NYS Thruway at Schoharie Creek (1987), along with
the Silver Bridge on the Ohio River (1967), which led the the USDOT National Bridge Inspection
Standard.
Mr. R36, may I add this one to your compilation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mianus_River_Bridge

I "was out visiting" that weekend. Trust me "it was sport" to X the Mianus on the Post Road (US1). The airport "limousine" service was operating no further East than Greenwich - and I had to get home.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. West Point, might that be a bit of "overkill" that the Mexican people, i.e. taxpayers, simply cannot afford?

I'm sure Mr. Slim is "sufficiently connected" to avoid any liability from faulty construction, as well as bodily injury and property damage, arising from the incident.
  by Disney Guy
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:44 pm
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:30 am Also I-35W bridge in (snip) National Bridge Inspection
Standard.
Mr. R36, may I add this one to your compilation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mianus_River_Bridge

I "was out visiting" that weekend. Trust me "it was sport" to X the Mianus on the Post Road (US1). The airport "limousine" service was operating no further East than Greenwich - and I had to get home.
Crossing the Mianus on the Post Road?
That is a different bridge from the one (for I-95) that collapsed.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Quite correct, Walt.

But with that being the only bridge X-ing the Mianus handling the 95's traffic, it was "sport".

When I first (was) moved to Greenwich during '46 (Pittsburgh during "The War"), that was THE ONLY highway bridge. As it does today, it has a view of the dam that the New Haven built so as to have a freshwater source for the generating facility at Cos Cob (the dynamo as my Mother always called it).

The now "repurposed" pumping station building still stands, complete with NYNH&H carved in stone.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:14 am Mr. West Point, might that be a bit of "overkill" that the Mexican people, i.e. taxpayers, simply cannot afford?

I'm sure Mr. Slim is "sufficiently connected" to avoid any liability from faulty construction, as well as bodily injury and property damage, arising from the incident.
Given the history of the line, and the controversy behind it's initial construction, "overkill" may just be the right kill in this case.

Line 12 is partially running in underground sections. The union for the transit workers did a review, and Norwegian group DMV is investigating. https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/mexi ... metro-line