Maine Ski Train

Is the Maine Eastern equipment Amtrak Cert? Maybe it could be made available, sure would look nice!

p42thedowneaster wrote:Is the Maine Eastern equipment Amtrak Cert? Maybe it could be made available, sure would look nice!

I had brought up that idea in this thread as well. Some of Maine Eastern's equipment is Amtrak certified but I don't think all of it is. Furthermore, what they do have up in Maine is likely shutdown and winterized at that time of year. At least for a "one off" test train or just a series of trains that run for a week only it probably isn't worth the cost of reactivation for such a brief period. There are several advantages to using Amtrak equipment, starting with limiting liability, ensuring host railroad acceptance of the equipment, and also having a fleet reserve pool that is available in the event of a last minute bad order. It is probably significantly more expensive than what Maine Eastern would charge but unless the service were to be run on a regular basis I can't see it working for Maine Eastern as a "one-time" proposition.

I'd love to see this happen, but can anyone convince Sunday River to pony up sponsorship money? They don't have Les Otten there anymore to be willing to take a flyer on chancy projects, and they're no longer in competition with Sugarloaf since the two mountains are under common ownership.

Incidentally, I might consider throwing in a Portland stop as well. Boston, Woburn, Durham if it's not during school vacation, Portland, all of them receive-only northbound and discharge-only southbound. And of course, multiple runs to try different scenarios could be done.

If I were in the ski busineass (I enjoyed the sport for a long time when I was much younger) I would put my resources in to snow making, grooming, uphill capacity issues, ski patrol facilities and other things that would benefit my customers (the people buying lift tickets and in doing so paying the bills). I would not touch a ski train with a ten foot pole and I love passenger trains as much as anybody on here and probably more than most. Sorry about that. This scheme is a total waste of money and I doubt very much if it will ever get off the ground.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:If I were in the ski busineass (I enjoyed the sport for a long time when I was much younger) I would put my resources in to snow making, grooming, uphill capacity issues, ski patrol facilities and other things that would benefit my customers (the people buying lift tickets and in doing so paying the bills). I would not touch a ski train with a ten foot pole and I love passenger trains as much as anybody on here and probably more than most. Sorry about that. This scheme is a total waste of money and I doubt very much if it will ever get off the ground.
Noel Weaver

Noel,

I agree no need for resort sponsorship. That being said it seems these days that there is sufficient interest in trains to cover expenses if the trains are only run during peak special interest periods. I think the Cape Flyer is a much better example which as we have seen has covered its costs and been able to operate for an entire season. I only propose for these trains to run during the "peak of the peak" on a test basis. I think a test train would tell us a lot about the potential of this kind of venture.

I know the MBTA runs a ski train to Wachusett via shuttle bus from Fitchburg in the winters - how successful is it? Could be useful to gauge interest.

Les was betting on the Amtrak connection in Portland to come much sooner than it did. With that connection, it could possibly run up PAR and switch over at Danville. What we sorely need is a better Portland train station...

Les still lives in Bethel too and I see him occasionally. I haven't talked to him about the Ski Train because I think it may be a sore subject.

And I guess lastly, let's be serious about this proposed train from Montreal to Portland. Paris and Oxford have gotten behind the project and they have stated they would want to stop in Bethel. Assuming it happens, this would probably be your best bet.

CN9634 wrote:And I guess lastly, let's be serious about this proposed train from Montreal to Portland. Paris and Oxford have gotten behind the project and they have stated they would want to stop in Bethel. Assuming it happens, this would probably be your best bet.

My take is that if NNEPRA think the finances can work and Amtrak has the cars this train is going to run one way or another. Based on what we've seen with the Cape Flyer the financial part of this simply does not seem to be a problem. For the moment Amtrak doesn't have the rolling stock but as I mull this over again February isn't exactly a busy month for them ridership wise. At that time of year they might have enough spare coaches to do it.

Why not just run a shuttle bus connection that transits between PTC and Sunday River? Virtually zero investment, lower operating cost, better fuel economy and faster transit time...

deathtopumpkins wrote:I know the MBTA runs a ski train to Wachusett via shuttle bus from Fitchburg in the winters - how successful is it? Could be useful to gauge interest.

They do, and it's been marketed for several seasons now, but it's just a regularly scheduled Fitchburg commuter train, not a special run, and the shuttle bus is paid for by the ski area rather than with public money. So the cost to the MBTA is minimal beyond regular service expenses. The only thing unusual about the train is that it normally includes the MBTA's bike/ski car, a coach that has been partially hollowed out to make space for storage that is also used on certain summer weekend trains to Rockport.

This is actually quite akin to Mr. Cowford's suggestion for a Portland-Sunday River dedicated bus meeting a regularly scheduled train, except for the shorter distances involved.

Cowford wrote:Why not just run a shuttle bus connection that transits between PTC and Sunday River? Virtually zero investment, lower operating cost, better fuel economy and faster transit time...

I am having trouble convincing myself that a two-seat train-bus ride would be faster than a one seat non-stop (or very limited stop) ride to Bethel with a shuttle onto the hill from there. I would be even less convinced of this once speed improvements slated for the MBTA tracks are in place.

Also, depending on the number of passengers I think the fuel economy point is moot. Obviously ridership would have to be high but I think in the past we've figured out that anything more than sold out 4 or 5 car trains starts to be competitive with bus fuel economy.

If the fares are covering costs why lose the comfort and convenience of riding the train all the way to Bethel?

I'm not as sure for the whole Boston-Bethel run, but I could easily see Portland-Bethel via rail being faster (and safer) than making the same trip via Route 26 in a car in February. However, I also think the "fares will cover expenses" is an I'll-believe-it-when-I-see-it assertion, and for a run like this which largely benefits 1 or 2 entities (the River and Mt. Abram), I'd want to see them kicking in sponsorship money rather than NNEPRA having to go to the taxpayers.

markhb wrote:I'm not as sure for the whole Boston-Bethel run, but I could easily see Portland-Bethel via rail being faster (and safer) than making the same trip via Route 26 in a car in February. However, I also think the "fares will cover expenses" is an I'll-believe-it-when-I-see-it assertion, and for a run like this which largely benefits 1 or 2 entities (the River and Mt. Abram), I'd want to see them kicking in sponsorship money rather than NNEPRA having to go to the taxpayers.

That was exactly the whole point of bringing this back up in the first place. The special train that Amtrak ran in PA for foliage season paid for itself off fares alone and then returned a nice operating profit as well. No taxpayer dollars necessary. I don't think anybody would have ever belived this to be the case. Nor would most people have believed that the Cape Flyer could cover its operating expenses this year but it did. That's why I think its "safe" to advocate for a test train during the "peak of the peak". As long as it is timed right I'm having a hard time believing this wouldn't work. I guess that makes me skeptical of your skepticism...lol!

Here is a different angle as reported by the Portland Press Herald and brought to my attention by another member:

Portland’s ski history stretches back nearly a century, to a heyday of Portland-based skiing in the 1920s. Winter carnivals were a big deal in the city back in the ’20s, and thousands came to watch (and participate in) winter events, including skiing. The biggest ski feature at the time was a ski jump, which launched skiers off the West End and toward St. John Street.

Skiers of the era also made use of Portland’s location as a railroad nexus, taking trains to go skiing throughout Maine and New England. Trains shuttled riders from two terminals to Bridgton, Rangeley, Farmington, and even Conway, New Hampshire; St. Johnsbury, Vermont; and Quebec.

Both jumping and ski trains saw their decline and eventual extinction in Portland, though both had small resurgences in the last few decades. During a few recent winters, Sunday River, Sugarloaf and Loon hosted the Downtown Showdown in Monument Square. The event, which featured skiers and snowboarders on a man-made slope with jumps and rails, hasn’t been held since 2011.

The most recent attempt at a Maine ski train came from Sunday River in the early 1990s. From 1993 to 1996, the Silver Bullet Express carried skiers to the Newry resort. It was an attempt by then-owner Les Otten to connect the resort to Maine cities (and Boston beyond), but it’s existence predated the Amtrak Downeaster and floundered before that regular service came to Maine in 2001.

Pre-dating the Downeaster made it a venture that was difficult to be successful, probably. I wonder if the owners would consider another try with marketing done by the Downeaster folks.