• M&E to start interchanging freight with CSX?

  • Discussion about the M&E, RVRR and SIRR lines of New Jersey, and also the Maine Eastern operation in Maine. Official web site can be found here: www.merail.com.
Discussion about the M&E, RVRR and SIRR lines of New Jersey, and also the Maine Eastern operation in Maine. Official web site can be found here: www.merail.com.

Moderators: GOLDEN-ARM, mikec, cjl330

  by mandealco
 
Hi
I've been following activities on the M&E since visiting there in 1985 (from New Zealand), even got married there in'92. Though I may not be fully up to date, I was under the impression the M&E was awarded interchange rights as part of the NS/CSX split of Conrail. The NS interchange point(s) were the old Conrail ones (on the Morris & Essex) and the CSX was to be accessed at Kearny. I'm not familiar with the track route at that end of the operation, but I'm sure the M&E has interchanged at least passenger cars there over the years. Is this the interchange you are talking about?

Cheers from Down Under.

Steve
Modelling NJ in NZ.

  by Tri-State Tom
 
I was under the impression the M&E was awarded interchange rights as part of the NS/CSX split of Conrail. The NS interchange point(s) were the old Conrail ones (on the Morris & Essex) and the CSX was to be accessed at Kearny. I'm not familiar with the track route at that end of the operation, but I'm sure the M&E has interchanged at least passenger cars there over the years. Is this the interchange you are talking about?
And I'm told you're correct....with the interchange point being the Center Street track in Harrison.

  by NYSW2300
 
Tri-State Tom wrote:
I was under the impression the M&E was awarded interchange rights as part of the NS/CSX split of Conrail. The NS interchange point(s) were the old Conrail ones (on the Morris & Essex) and the CSX was to be accessed at Kearny. I'm not familiar with the track route at that end of the operation, but I'm sure the M&E has interchanged at least passenger cars there over the years. Is this the interchange you are talking about?
And I'm told you're correct....with the interchange point being the Center Street track in Harrison.
If you read the NS/CSX transaction of the Conrail Split, NS was not oposed to the M&E seeking an Interchange with CSX. This does not mean one was granted at that time. This thread has heated up becasue someone saw " some freight cars" going over rt 24. This could be a NJT work train. If somebody saw a Big Red Alco and "some freight cars" that would be different.

South Karney doesnt have any road freights drop off cars. The cars would have to come from Selkirk then spend another day in North Bergen, then spend a day at Karney before somebody moves them again to the Center St Branch. Best case the transit time for an M&E car from Selkirk to Morristown would be 3-4 days. Is this any better than the transit time from Allentown to Lake Jct

  by blockline4180
 
NYSW2300 wrote:
Tri-State Tom wrote:
I was under the impression the M&E was awarded interchange rights as part of the NS/CSX split of Conrail. The NS interchange point(s) were the old Conrail ones (on the Morris & Essex) and the CSX was to be accessed at Kearny. I'm not familiar with the track route at that end of the operation, but I'm sure the M&E has interchanged at least passenger cars there over the years. Is this the interchange you are talking about?
And I'm told you're correct....with the interchange point being the Center Street track in Harrison.
If you read the NS/CSX transaction of the Conrail Split, NS was not oposed to the M&E seeking an Interchange with CSX. This does not mean one was granted at that time. This thread has heated up becasue someone saw " some freight cars" going over rt 24. This could be a NJT work train. If somebody saw a Big Red Alco and "some freight cars" that would be different.

South Karney doesnt have any road freights drop off cars. The cars would have to come from Selkirk then spend another day in North Bergen, then spend a day at Karney before somebody moves them again to the Center St Branch. Best case the transit time for an M&E car from Selkirk to Morristown would be 3-4 days. Is this any better than the transit time from Allentown to Lake Jct

Oh okay, so then it isn't happening!!! Your right and everyone else I've spoken to is wrong!!! How is that??? You happy now?

  by NYSW2300
 
blockline4180 wrote:
NYSW2300 wrote:
Tri-State Tom wrote:
I was under the impression the M&E was awarded interchange rights as part of the NS/CSX split of Conrail. The NS interchange point(s) were the old Conrail ones (on the Morris & Essex) and the CSX was to be accessed at Kearny. I'm not familiar with the track route at that end of the operation, but I'm sure the M&E has interchanged at least passenger cars there over the years. Is this the interchange you are talking about?
And I'm told you're correct....with the interchange point being the Center Street track in Harrison.
If you read the NS/CSX transaction of the Conrail Split, NS was not oposed to the M&E seeking an Interchange with CSX. This does not mean one was granted at that time. This thread has heated up becasue someone saw " some freight cars" going over rt 24. This could be a NJT work train. If somebody saw a Big Red Alco and "some freight cars" that would be different.

South Karney doesnt have any road freights drop off cars. The cars would have to come from Selkirk then spend another day in North Bergen, then spend a day at Karney before somebody moves them again to the Center St Branch. Best case the transit time for an M&E car from Selkirk to Morristown would be 3-4 days. Is this any better than the transit time from Allentown to Lake Jct

Oh okay, so then it isn't happening!!! Your right and everyone else I've spoken to is wrong!!! How is that??? You happy now?
So your saying CSX has confirmed this or just M&E "employees"

  by The Rising
 
So your saying CSX has confirmed this or just M&E "employees"
Hello all,

For what it's worth, a firm I work with recently received a rate quote from CSX to an M&E served location. The routing was CSX Karny ME. Since it was from CSX, I guess that means CSX indeed has an interchange with the M&E. I wouldn't think that CSX would give out a rate quote to a junction that doesn't exist!!!!
:wink:

Well, that's just my two cents worth.

See ya all later.......

  by blockline4180
 
Hello Rising!!! :-D Nice to see you posting in here again! It's been awhile, no?? :-D

  by NYSW2300
 
Maybe all those Kuiken cars are coming CSX.

  by blockline4180
 
NYSW2300 wrote:Maybe all those Kuiken cars are coming CSX.
What Kuiken cars, where??

This is just speculation on my part, but perhaps one of the reasons for the NEW M&E interchange with CSX is so they(ME) can serve the new Kuikens Lumber facility off the Chester Branch in Succusunna?? They have been there for over a year and haven't gotten any rail service...Perhaps NS rates were higher then CSX's??

  by NYSW2300
 
Trainlawyer wrote:The following is taken from the CSX website at:

http://www.csx.com/?fuseaction=customer ... ail&i=2849

Short Line Partners: Short Line Directory - Profile
Short Line Profile

Shortline Code: ME
Shortline Name: Morristown & Erie Railway
Website Address: www.merail.com
Contact Name: Bill Phillips
Contact Phone: 973-267-4300
Contact Fax: 973-267-3138
Contact Address: P O Box 2206
Abbett Ave
Morristown , NJ 07962
States Operating In: NJ
Junction Points: NJ, Kearny
Settlement Type: Junction Settlement
Holding Company: Independent

CSX Contact: Tony Giobbie
609-409-2410


First - note the spelling of Kearny. The use of the prooper spelink makes it easier to find in a database.

Second - I do not have the faintest idea what haulage or trackage rights agreements may be involved here - It should be interesting to see what traffic moves through this gate.

Perhaps the Rising could enlighten us.

GME
I stand corrected. Spelling was ment as a joke.

  by GOLDEN-ARM
 
Trying to determine now, if that "Junction Settlement" was a result of an action, forced upon the NS, as a result of the CSAO, and the now possible ability of two carriers to access the NJCT. Still have found no Order, calling for the Interchange rule, to be effective. It's possible to be written into the CSAO contract, that occured within the agreement to "break-up" Conrail, and allow access fairly to the CSAO's, and those carriers who might be affected without tarriff shopping being allowed, in a now dual carrier operation. Will keep searching........ :(

  by NS1
 
Regardless of if any interchange agreement has been established between the ME and CSX in Kearny, there has been no evidence that any interchange has ever been used. There is a report of "three freight cars" heading west over Rt 24 in Summit. Nobody has said they saw the ME actually bringing cars to or from Kearny, and furthermore, no cars for interchange have ever been spotted on the Center St branch.

If this interchange was established, as seems to be the case, during the Conrail split, that would have been almost 8 years ago now.

My point is that if an interchange does exist, it does not mean that it is currently being used or has been used at any point in the past.

  by The Rising
 
Hello all,

Hello Trainlawyer,

My appologies for not using my spell checker more often. Oh well, this site is full of typo's. I guess I'll just have to add some more. :wink:

As for Trainlawyer's question, it is my understanding that M&E trackage rights agreement with NJT was amended to allow the M&E to handle the movement of revenue freight cars between Morristown and the Center Street branch in Kearny.

However operations on the Center Street branch are governed under the terms of an Interchange agreement executed between M&E and Conrail, with the blessing of both class 1 owners. I know the M&E's interchange at Lake Junction is governed via a similiar contractual style, albeit, with NS only at that location.

One must remember, the M&E's trackage rights over NJT are NOT like a traditional railroad trackage right in that they are not regulated by the Surface Transportation Board. M&E freight rights over NJT are directly linked to their respective interchange agreements. The controlling document is the interchange agreement itself, the trackage rights simply allow the M&E to handle there own traffic to and from the interchanges only.

However, I am not sure if the M&E would be allowed under the current arrangement to handle revenue movements between stations on it various segments to a point on one of its other lines.

For example, I do NOT believe that the M&E at this very moment has the legal right to move railcars between a point on the Rahway Valley line, like Phillips, to say a plastics firm on the whippany line. The ability to move revenue freight cars over the M&E line is governed by interchange agreements. I'm not sure if the provision in the Rail Industry agreement actually allow the M&E to run a direct service between stations.

My reason is simple, cars from any of the lines destined to either NS, or CSX are handled to an interchange point. Those movements can be governed clearly by the plain language contained in an interchange agreement.

However, if County Concrete in Kenvil tendered a shipment to the M&E with the utlimate destination of say, Whippany, I don't know if the M&E has the legal right to handle move "overhead" traffic over the NJT line between Lake Junction and Morristown.

Now before everyone screams about the M&E's handling of ballast cars, just remember those movements would have been company service movments and would have fallen under two different agreements. The NJT trackage rights agreement allows the M&E to move light locomotives, passengers cars, and company service trains over NJT lines.

And the second reason why the M&E could move ballast on its own account is that the movement of ballast consigneed to and owned by the railroad is not "legally" transporation by rail carrier. The M&E owned/controlled the cars, owned the product in the cars, and legally can not contract with itself to haul material it already owned. Hence, it is clearly a company service movement, not rail "transportation" as defined by the STB.

I'm really curious when, or should I say IF, service on the RV is ever restored, will CSX, and NS, allow the M&E to handle interline traffic under a "true" trackage right (like the NYS&W operations), or will the make it some form of haulage agreement with NS and CSX seeing the movement and getting a division.

I guess only time will tell.

Hope that answered your question Trainlawyer!

And yes NS1, they are actually using the interchange.

Well that's all for now folks.

See ya all later.

  by ajt
 
Saw the M&E 18 yesterday (Tuesday) at lunchtime at Frank E. Rodgers Blvd in Harrison on the Center St branch, looked to be tied to a tankcar.

  by gravelyfan
 
ajt wrote:Saw the M&E 18 yesterday (Tuesday) at lunchtime at Frank E. Rodgers Blvd in Harrison on the Center St branch, looked to be tied to a tankcar.
Saw the same M&E 1-tank car train later on Tuesday going west on the NJT Morristown Line - operated via recently re-opened Track 3 at Newark Broad Street station.