Location of this LV line?

BR&P wrote:I have to say the track geometry at Spencer seems to fit. Is it possible the date on the aerial photo is wrong? The highway bridge in the pic looks old and run down, perhaps a state highway project came along soon after and gave us what is there now.

Grade crossing was there before bridge went up and that bridge had wingwalls. BTW.. it's single track as shown in record plan. Also it have a road that goes along with the track under the bridge too.

see the record plan from 1941

BR&P wrote:So could this be somewhere down in the PA coal country rather than NY? Along that thought, if it DID used to be a yard, probably the yard and bridge would show in some old pics of what used to be. I don't have any of the LV books, but maybe somebody could skim through some to see if something jumps out.

Pa was my first thought. Pa have plenty of oddball bridges. and I did think that I found one spot but I could be wrong. I did not bring it up since I saw photo caption saying "Upstate NY"..

pumpers wrote: My main point was the wide span. Not your ordinary road bridge

One of the reasons I leaned towards Hinman Rt224 was because in the aerials it was a longer bridge owing to the angle the tracks went under it. But that seems to be unequivocally ruled out despite some decent evidence.

sd80mac wrote:Grade crossing was there before bridge went up and that bridge had wingwalls. BTW.. it's single track as shown in record plan. Also it have a road that goes along with the track under the bridge too.

see the record plan from 1941

Just to confirm since we can't see the uploaded file (too large? TIFs tend to be huge), the topo maps on historicaerials confirm overpass built/grade crossing abandoned between 1951 and 1956.

did it work this time?

ctclark1 wrote:

sd80mac wrote:Grade crossing was there before bridge went up and that bridge had wingwalls. BTW.. it's single track as shown in record plan. Also it have a road that goes along with the track under the bridge too.

see the record plan from 1941

Just to confirm since we can't see the uploaded file (too large? TIFs tend to be huge), the topo maps on historicaerials confirm overpass built/grade crossing abandoned between 1951 and 1956.

which one are u talking about? Hinman or Spencer?

and I did post the tif again but in JPG... That JPG was for bridge in Spencer.

the bridge at RT 224 was removed in 81.

ctclark1 - can you open the file now?

about RT 224 overpass... unfortunately.. there is no record plan of bridge in the file. apparently it's lost... Therefore I cannot confirm if it's the same one or not. However by comparing to the design of the bridge at Spencer, I don't believe that it would be RT 224 or it would had similar design as the one in Spencer since it's almost the same years that they were built.

I would have to talk to someone in DOT Regional office to look up for it, most likely in Hornell. If not, then Syracuse. Being taking down in 1981, there would be fat chance that the folder of the bridge inspection reports sitting in the cabinet.

Other way to find out... Stop by one of these farms nearby, I am pretty sure that it's same family living there and you can show the pictures to them to see if it's the same bridge at RT 224. Hopefully they did saw the underneath of the bridge.

Received an email from TBDiamond with the attached pic, taken by our own Scotychaos. View is north, which would put the MP on the correct side. And if the Clarks were traveling Rt 17 taking railroad pics, this area would not be THAT far from the Elmira location which was related earlier - after 50 years it would be an easy mistake to make.

Had forwarded the 1967 photo to several correspondents. One related that he felt it was near Sayre, PA. Another, Mark S., emailed Scot's photo to me.

I don't know ... the bridge in the original photo appears to be all concrete - and - the pole line is missing in the newest (17C) photo.

CPSmith wrote:I don't know ... the bridge in the original photo appears to be all concrete - and - the pole line is missing in the newest (17C) photo.

I would not put much faith in the pole line, they can easily be moved or removed.

OK, taking a second look at Scot's photo, it appears concrete was poured on the outside of the steel girders - not sure why or how common that was, but I've never seen that before.

So yes, pole line notwithstanding, it looks like it matches the one in the original photo.

You'll have to go to http://www.historicaerials.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for a better view - the attached is a screenshot of the 1968 aerial of the 17c bridge.

The curve matches the location
Pole line would have been on correct side
Pole line has 4 cross-arms as I noted earlier
Electric pole lines crossing the ROW match
Bridge appears to match
Remaining track in 1984 photo agrees with the one that was well-used in the 1967 photo
Signal was probably southward home signal for State Line interlocking, MP 272.6
Milepost would have been 273.0
Location is near Horseheads

I'm convinced.

It appears to me that the present 17C crossing is maybe 100' south of where the bridge would have been.

Further info from TBDiamond:

LVRR Zone E General Order No. 811 dated March 11, 1964 accompanying track diagram shows signal number 2772 just east of the Main St. (Rt. 17C?) bridge. In addition, under location of telephones found on page 68, LVRR ETT No. 7 dated October 25, 1959 a telephone is located at signal 2772, MP 277.6.

I do believe we have the location pinpointed.

I'm not convinced -- there doesn't appear to be any curvature of note approaching the bridge in the aerial shots, while there's a definite curve in the original.