Location of this LV line?

Hi Someone was posting this picture in Facebook and asking about whereabout of the location of this photo. I figure that a CERTAIN person in this group would have 99.99% probable answer to this...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ssave/6696904747/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I believe that bridge is old RT 332 overpass bridge. But wide open and flat space on south end (on other side of track) doesn't struck me.

thanks

Ken

Ken, I don't know where it IS. But after initially thinking you are right, I'm going to say it ISN'T Rt 332.

It does appear to be looking east, at an eastbound train with Victor a couple miles behind the photographer. And of course in LV days this would have been the old bridge, with no road adjacent and actually located farther north than the FGLK/ONCT track today. The (apparent) eastbound main appears to be out of service, as it should be. And there DID used to be an open area on the south side, with a spur known as Berro Siding located there. That spur was used by Berro Construction Co. to unload cement when they built the Thruway. In later years they loaded gondolas of manure from Finger Lakes Racetrack to be shipped to mushroom growers.

BUT:

1. What at first looks like the rails of that siding just in front of the loco's cab, when enlarged, look more like auto tire tracks

2. The pole line looks like it is on the photographer's side, while at Rt 332 it was on the south side

2. The milepost appears to be on the south side rather than the north

4. That milepost (367) was gone in ONCT days but a measurement to locate the replacement put it about 20 carlengths farther west than that.

5. I don't recall anything in the field, which would be that white object which looks like a propane tank or even a tank car at upper left

6. While cameras often distort grades, it LOOKS like the train is going downhill there. Route 332 overpass was on a pretty decent grade uphill eastbound.

So based on all that, I'm going to say it just does not fit for RT 332, but I'm not 100% dead certain. I'd guess somewhere down east, in the general area of Van Etten or thereabouts. I'm betting TBDiamond will have the answer for sure.

Weren't the C628s banned west of X after a certain date, although there were times they did get used.

BR&P wrote:Ken, I don't know where it IS. But after initially thinking you are right, I'm going to say it ISN'T Rt 332.

It does appear to be looking east, at an eastbound train with Victor a couple miles behind the photographer. And of course in LV days this would have been the old bridge, with no road adjacent and actually located farther north than the FGLK/ONCT track today. The (apparent) eastbound main appears to be out of service, as it should be. And there DID used to be an open area on the south side, with a spur known as Berro Siding located there. That spur was used by Berro Construction Co. to unload cement when they built the Thruway. In later years they loaded gondolas of manure from Finger Lakes Racetrack to be shipped to mushroom growers.

BUT:

1. What at first looks like the rails of that siding just in front of the loco's cab, when enlarged, look more like auto tire tracks

2. The pole line looks like it is on the photographer's side, while at Rt 332 it was on the south side

2. The milepost appears to be on the south side rather than the north

4. That milepost (367) was gone in ONCT days but a measurement to locate the replacement put it about 20 carlengths farther west than that.

5. I don't recall anything in the field, which would be that white object which looks like a propane tank or even a tank car at upper left

6. While cameras often distort grades, it LOOKS like the train is going downhill there. Route 332 overpass was on a pretty decent grade uphill eastbound.

So based on all that, I'm going to say it just does not fit for RT 332, but I'm not 100% dead certain. I'd guess somewhere down east, in the general area of Van Etten or thereabouts. I'm betting TBDiamond will have the answer for sure.

Thanks.

and other thing is that the ground is level with the track, not above the track. that was my first dead give away hint. but I was not 100% sure since I cant remember how the road was like before reconstruction of RT 322 in 2000

By the way, could I share your response to the poster in fb?

Sure, feel free to share my post, glad to help.

Charles, it seem to me I did hear something about the White Elephants being restricted but can't recall any details of when or where.

I had another thought. That's NOT 332, as the bridge there had a vertical abutment rather than the pillars and sloping embankment. I admit I'm not a bridge engineer an probably am not using the right terminology, but the construction of the bridge is wrong for 332.

I'm no expert at photo manipulation, but upon looking at it original size with some tweaks to sharpness and color I'm almost positive the mile post starts with a 2xx, with a good possibility of the second number being a 9, if that helps anyone who knows the line better. Perhaps thinking in the area of the 290's instead of 360's will jog someone's memory?

Milepost 29x puts it around Cayuta. There is the Rt 224 crossing but the open area to the right (with black dirt making it seem like former industrial tracks or something) puts it out of place.

I looked at Alpine too. Doesn't seem like a match.

BR&P wrote:I had another thought. That's NOT 332, as the bridge there had a vertical abutment rather than the pillars and sloping embankment. I admit I'm not a bridge engineer an probably am not using the right terminology, but the construction of the bridge is wrong for 332.

Is that original bridge the only one until expansion of Rt 332 in early 2000's?

and yes, I looked into google earth going back to 4/1994 and the previous bridge do have wingwalls instead of piers and embankment. See the attachment

nydepot wrote:Weren't the C628s banned west of X after a certain date, although there were times they did get used.

Yes, the C628s were generally banned west of Sayre in 1972, although they did occasionally venture west of there when LV was short on power. I'm pretty sure I saw a pair leading a westbound at Odessa around 1974. I was very young, but the big black & white loco leading the train left a big impression. The other unit was red, but of similar size, so I am assuming she was also a C628. The ground shook when they passed, far more so than any other train I recall from that era.

Considering the changes in the landscape at Cayuta, I think it could be the location of the photo. There are numerous locations across upstate NY that were rail customers back in the day but have grown into grassy fields or even forests now. The road bridge doesn't look like Route 332 to me.

sd80mac wrote: Is that original bridge the only one until expansion of Rt 332 in early 2000's?

I don't know, but I am almost certain that previous bridge was there before the C628's were built. If there was a third bridge (or a first bridge if you prefer) it would have been gone by the time of the photo.

BR&P wrote:

sd80mac wrote: Is that original bridge the only one until expansion of Rt 332 in early 2000's?

I don't know, but I am almost certain that previous bridge was there before the C628's were built. If there was a third bridge (or a first bridge if you prefer) it would have been gone by the time of the photo.

Yeah I thought so. I am pretty sure that the bridge was built before Thruway was built. I guess that the original road would be normal road until Thruway was created and RT 332 was extended to thruway exit from RT 96? I cant see how state would end or begin RT 332 in middle of nowhere.. Therefore extension of RT 332 were built into Thruway exit and they didn't build that type of bridge in 1950's

That bridge in picture looks way too old... I believe long before 1950's

sd80mac wrote: I cant see how state would end or begin RT 332 in middle of nowhere.. Therefore extension of RT 332 were built into Thruway exit and they didn't build that type of bridge in 1950's

That bridge in picture looks way too old... I believe long before 1950's

BR&P wrote:

sd80mac wrote: I cant see how state would end or begin RT 332 in middle of nowhere.. Therefore extension of RT 332 were built into Thruway exit and they didn't build that type of bridge in 1950's

That bridge in picture looks way too old... I believe long before 1950's

On top of that, you can see that the bridge is combined of steel girders and concrete beams. That type of bridge is not something state would build.. Maybe local or county? Or Pa? Seems to me that concrete beams were added to strengthen the bridge. I am pretty sure that is not in Rochester area. Anyone had seen similar type of bridge anywhere else?

Were it not for the thought that the EB track should be the one out of service, I'd almost say it could be here with a very shortened field of view...

Oh, sorry, here is an older picture. The bridge was replaced after the line came out. The thing that stands out to me is if you zoom in towards the bridge on the overhead, there's a definite dark line on the side of it, indicative of the girder you can see in the picture.

Barring that, I'm still almost positive the second number is a 9. The first number really looks like a 2 to me, but I guess it could be a 3, they both have that curve on the top. I can pretty well make out the tail of the 9 in the second spot though, so I'm fairly certain about that one.